linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Add VFIO mediated device support and IMS support for the idxd driver.

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20200423191217.GD13640@mellanox.com>
Date:   Thu, 23 Apr 2020 16:12:17 -0300
From:   Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...lanox.com>
To:     "Raj, Ashok" <ashok.raj@...el.com>
Cc:     "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@...el.com>,
        "Jiang, Dave" <dave.jiang@...el.com>,
        "vkoul@...nel.org" <vkoul@...nel.org>,
        "megha.dey@...ux.intel.com" <megha.dey@...ux.intel.com>,
        "maz@...nel.org" <maz@...nel.org>,
        "bhelgaas@...gle.com" <bhelgaas@...gle.com>,
        "rafael@...nel.org" <rafael@...nel.org>,
        "gregkh@...uxfoundation.org" <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        "tglx@...utronix.de" <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        "hpa@...or.com" <hpa@...or.com>,
        "alex.williamson@...hat.com" <alex.williamson@...hat.com>,
        "Pan, Jacob jun" <jacob.jun.pan@...el.com>,
        "Liu, Yi L" <yi.l.liu@...el.com>, "Lu, Baolu" <baolu.lu@...el.com>,
        "Kumar, Sanjay K" <sanjay.k.kumar@...el.com>,
        "Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@...el.com>,
        "Lin, Jing" <jing.lin@...el.com>,
        "Williams, Dan J" <dan.j.williams@...el.com>,
        "kwankhede@...dia.com" <kwankhede@...dia.com>,
        "eric.auger@...hat.com" <eric.auger@...hat.com>,
        "parav@...lanox.com" <parav@...lanox.com>,
        "dmaengine@...r.kernel.org" <dmaengine@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "x86@...nel.org" <x86@...nel.org>,
        "linux-pci@...r.kernel.org" <linux-pci@...r.kernel.org>,
        "kvm@...r.kernel.org" <kvm@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 00/15] Add VFIO mediated device support and IMS
 support for the idxd driver.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:14:36PM -0700, Raj, Ashok wrote:
> Hi Jason
> 
> > > > 
> > > > I'm feeling really skeptical that adding all this PCI config space and
> > > > MMIO BAR emulation to the kernel just to cram this into a VFIO
> > > > interface is a good idea, that kind of stuff is much safer in
> > > > userspace.
> > > > 
> > > > Particularly since vfio is not really needed once a driver is using
> > > > the PASID stuff. We already have general code for drivers to use to
> > > > attach a PASID to a mm_struct - and using vfio while disabling all the
> > > > DMA/iommu config really seems like an abuse.
> > > 
> > > Well, this series is for virtualizing idxd device to VMs, instead of
> > > supporting SVA for bare metal processes. idxd implements a
> > > hardware-assisted mediated device technique called Intel Scalable
> > > I/O Virtualization,
> > 
> > I'm familiar with the intel naming scheme.
> > 
> > > which allows each Assignable Device Interface (ADI, e.g. a work
> > > queue) tagged with an unique PASID to ensure fine-grained DMA
> > > isolation when those ADIs are assigned to different VMs. For this
> > > purpose idxd utilizes the VFIO mdev framework and IOMMU aux-domain
> > > extension. Bare metal SVA will be enabled for idxd later by using
> > > the general SVA code that you mentioned.  Both paths will co-exist
> > > in the end so there is no such case of disabling DMA/iommu config.
> >  
> > Again, if you will have a normal SVA interface, there is no need for a
> > VFIO version, just use normal SVA for both.
> > 
> > PCI emulation should try to be in userspace, not the kernel, for
> > security.
> 
> Not sure we completely understand your proposal. Mediated devices
> are software constructed and they have protected resources like
> interrupts and stuff and VFIO already provids abstractions to export
> to user space.
> 
> Native SVA is simply passing the process CR3 handle to IOMMU so
> IOMMU knows how to walk process page tables, kernel handles things
> like page-faults, doing device tlb invalidations and such.

> That by itself doesn't translate to what a guest typically does
> with a VDEV. There are other control paths that need to be serviced
> from the kernel code via VFIO. For speed path operations like
> ringing doorbells and such they are directly managed from guest.

You don't need vfio to mmap BAR pages to userspace. The unique thing
that vfio gives is it provides a way to program the classic non-PASID
iommu, which you are not using here.

> How do you propose to use the existing SVA api's  to also provide
> full device emulation as opposed to using an existing infrastructure 
> that's already in place?

You'd provide the 'full device emulation' in userspace (eg qemu),
along side all the other device emulation. Device emulation does not
belong in the kernel without a very good reason.

You get the doorbell BAR page from your own char dev

You setup a PASID IOMMU configuration over your own char dev

Interrupt delivery is triggering a generic event fd

What is VFIO needed for?
 
> Perhaps Alex can ease Jason's concerns?

Last we talked Alex also had doubts on what mdev should be used
for. It is a feature that seems to lack boundaries, and I'll note that
when the discussion came up for VDPA, they eventually choose not to
use VFIO.

Jason