linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 0/8] Qualcomm Cloud AI 100 driver

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Date:   Tue, 19 May 2020 12:26:01 -0600
From:   Jeffrey Hugo <jhugo@...eaurora.org>
To:     Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>
Cc:     Dave Airlie <airlied@...il.com>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        manivannan.sadhasivam@...aro.org, bjorn.andersson@...aro.org,
        wufan@...eaurora.org, pratanan@...eaurora.org,
        linux-arm-msm <linux-arm-msm@...r.kernel.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/8] Qualcomm Cloud AI 100 driver

On 5/19/2020 12:12 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 12:07:03PM -0600, Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
>> On 5/19/2020 11:41 AM, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
>>> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 08:57:38AM -0600, Jeffrey Hugo wrote:
>>>> On 5/18/2020 11:08 PM, Dave Airlie wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 00:12, Jeffrey Hugo <jhugo@...eaurora.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Introduction:
>>>>>> Qualcomm Cloud AI 100 is a PCIe adapter card which contains a dedicated
>>>>>> SoC ASIC for the purpose of efficently running Deep Learning inference
>>>>>> workloads in a data center environment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The offical press release can be found at -
>>>>>> https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2019/04/09/qualcomm-brings-power-efficient-artificial-intelligence-inference
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The offical product website is -
>>>>>> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/datacenter-artificial-intelligence
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the time of the offical press release, numerious technology news sites
>>>>>> also covered the product.  Doing a search of your favorite site is likely
>>>>>> to find their coverage of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is our goal to have the kernel driver for the product fully upstream.
>>>>>> The purpose of this RFC is to start that process.  We are still doing
>>>>>> development (see below), and thus not quite looking to gain acceptance quite
>>>>>> yet, but now that we have a working driver we beleive we are at the stage
>>>>>> where meaningful conversation with the community can occur.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jeffery,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just wondering what the userspace/testing plans for this driver.
>>>>>
>>>>> This introduces a new user facing API for a device without pointers to
>>>>> users or tests for that API.
>>>>
>>>> We have daily internal testing, although I don't expect you to take my word
>>>> for that.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to get one of these devices into the hands of Linaro, so that
>>>> it can be put into KernelCI.  Similar to other Qualcomm products. I'm trying
>>>> to convince the powers that be to make this happen.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding what the community could do on its own, everything but the Linux
>>>> driver is considered proprietary - that includes the on device firmware and
>>>> the entire userspace stack.  This is a decision above my pay grade.
>>>
>>> Ok, that's a decision you are going to have to push upward on, as we
>>> really can't take this without a working, open, userspace.
>>
>> Fair enough.  I hope that your position may have made things easier for me.
>>
>> I hope this doesn't widen the rift as it were, but what is the "bar" for
>> this userspace?
>>
>> Is a simple test application that adds two numbers on the hardware
>> acceptable?
> 
> Make it the real library that you use for your applications that anyone
> can then also use as well if they have the hardware.  Why would you want
> something "crippled"?

It makes it easier to dance around real or perceived IP issues, and thus 
I can likely more successfully "push upward" as you put it.

> 
>> What is the bar "working"?  I intend to satisfy this request in good faith,
>> but I wonder, if no one has the hardware besides our customers, and possibly
>> KernelCI, can you really say that I've provided a working userspace?
> 
> How do you know who your customers really are, or who they sell the
> chips to?  I could end up with one of these... :)

At this time, I don't think that is going to happen, but I would like to 
see it regardless.

>>> Especially given the copyright owner of this code, that would be just
>>> crazy and foolish to not have open userspace code as well.  Firmware
>>> would also be wonderful as well, go poke your lawyers about derivative
>>> work issues and the like for fun conversations :)
>>
>> Those are the kind of conversations I try to avoid  :)
> 
> Sounds like you are going to now have to have them, have fun!

Honestly, I fail to see where you think there is a derivative work, so, 
I'm not really sure what discussions I need to revisit with our lawyers.

-- 
Jeffrey Hugo
Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. is a member of the
Code Aurora Forum, a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project.