Date:   Thu, 3 Sep 2020 10:45:23 +0900
From:   Masahiro Yamada <masahiroy@...nel.org>
To:     Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@...gle.com>
Cc:     stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
        Matthias Maennich <maennich@...gle.com>,
        Michal Marek <michal.lkml@...kovi.net>,
        Linux Kbuild mailing list <linux-kbuild@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        clang-built-linux <clang-built-linux@...glegroups.com>,
        Stephen Hines <srhines@...gle.com>,
        Dan Albert <danalbert@...gle.com>,
        Fangrui Song <maskray@...gle.com>,
        Elliott Hughes <enh@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Makefile: add -fuse-ld=lld to KBUILD_HOSTLDFLAGS when LLVM=1

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 7:40 AM Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@...gle.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 10:14 PM Masahiro Yamada <masahiroy@...nel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 7:10 AM 'Nick Desaulniers' via Clang Built
> > Linux <clang-built-linux@...glegroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > While moving Android kernels over to use LLVM=1, we observe the failure
> > > when building in a hermetic docker image:
> > >   HOSTCC  scripts/basic/fixdep
> > > clang: error: unable to execute command: Executable "ld" doesn't exist!
> > >
> > > The is because the build of the host utility fixdep builds the fixdep
> > > executable in one step by invoking the compiler as the driver, rather
> > > than individual compile then link steps.
> > >
> > > Clang when configured from source defaults to use the system's linker,
> > > and not LLVM's own LLD, unless the CMake config
> > > -DCLANG_DEFAULT_LINKER='lld' is set when configuring a build of clang
> > > itself.
> > >
> > > Don't rely on the compiler's implicit default linker; be explicit.
> >
> >
> > I do not understand this patch.
> >
> > The host compiler should be able to link executables
> > without any additional settings.
>
> Correct; there is no issue linking working executables. The issue is
> which linker is used by default or implied when -fuse-ld=* is not
> explicitly set.
>
> >
> > So, can you link a hello world program
> > in your docker?
> >
> > masahiro@zoe:~$ cat test.c
> > #include <stdio.h>
> > int main(void)
> > {
> >         printf("helloworld\n");
> >         return 0;
> > }
> > masahiro@zoe:~$ clang test.c
>
> It will fail, because:
> 1. clang will implicitly default to ld.bfd on linux hosts and ld on
> OSX hosts (idk about windows).
> 2. ld.bfd is not installed, and we *dont'* want to install it.
> Instead, we *want* to use ld.lld in a hermetic environment.
>
> > If this fails, your environment is broken.
>
> Disagree.  The environment has unique constraints (cross compiling for
> Android from OSX host, caring about builds being hermetic, etc.).
>
> > Just do  -DCLANG_DEFAULT_LINKER='lld'
> > if you know GNU ld is missing in your docker environment.
>
> I understand your point. However, I have two reasons I still think
> this patch should be upstream rather than downstream:
>
> 1. The build of clang that is distributed with Android, "AOSP LLVM"
> [0], does not and cannot yet set `-DCLANG_DEFAULT_LINKER='lld'`.  See
> the discussion in the comments of [1] where I'm trying to do that.
> The reason is that AOSP LLVM is used to build Android userspace,
> kernel, and is part of the NDK for developers to target Android from
> Windows, OSX, and Linux.  If AOSP is used to build a "host binary" on
> OSX, LLD will not work there for that quite yet.  OSX has its own
> linker that is not LLD, and LLD support for mach-o binaries is a work
> in progress.  NDK has their own timeline that's blocking that change.
>
> You might think "that's Android problem" and that we should just carry
> the patch downstream/out of tree since it is somewhat self-inflicted
> but a very important second point why I think this should be upstream:
>
> 2. clang itself (upstream of AOSP LLVM) doesn't yet default to
> -fuse-ld=lld (likely for similar reasons related to OSX).  That means
> distributions of clang-10 from your distro package manager such as
> Debian's apt won't be hermetic.  That means if you build clang from
> source, and don't configure it with -DCLANG_DEFAULT_LINKER='lld', then
> your kernel builds with LLVM=1 will not be hermetic.


I am still not convinced with this.

If you care which linker is internally used,
you can/should set -DCLANG_DEFAULT_LINKER='lld',
and that is what 'configure' exists for.



> That means we
> have to document this somewhere for other people to know or find this.
> That means I have to run around and tell all of the different Kernel
> CI folks about this compiler configuration in order to test
> hermetically.


Is it so important?
This is just host programs we are talking about.

If you really want to ensure lld is used everywhere,
you need to ask any other projects to add -fuse-ld=lld
in their build systems, but it is not realistic.

So, I tend to stick to the default
for host programs.


Your environment is _unique_, at least.

Kbuild provides a way to add extra flags to HOSTCC.

What do you think about doing this?

$ make LLVM=1 HOSTCFLAGS=-fuse-ld=lld


This is documented in Documentation/kbuild/kbuild.rst

HOSTCFLAGS
----------
Additional flags to be passed to $(HOSTCC) when building host programs.






>
> ...
>
> Or, encouraged by the zen of Python, we can just be explicit about
> what linker we want when using LLVM=1, which already signals that that
> is what we want to do.
>
> I think there are similar issues with other distros changing default
> flags of GCC (like -fstack-protector) [2].  The kernel is already
> explicit, so that differences in distro's changes to compiler defaults
> don't matter for kernel builds (except where people accidentally wipe
> out KBUILD_CFLAGS).  I'd argue my change is in the same bucket.
> Please reconsider this patch.
>
> (I should also probably add something like this for `make LD=ld.lld`
> and `make LD=ld.bfd`, regardless of compiler, since everyone supports
> `-fuse-ld=`)
> [0] https://android.googlesource.com/platform/prebuilts/clang/host/linux-x86/
> [1] https://android-review.googlesource.com/c/toolchain/llvm_android/+/1007826
> [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HardenedCompiler#Detailed_Description
> --
> Thanks,
> ~Nick Desaulniers



-- 
Best Regards
Masahiro Yamada

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