Message-Id: <89B17C54-671B-4363-B425-CCFE17DD8FDD@redhat.com>
Date:   Wed, 25 Nov 2020 22:13:46 +0100
From:   David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>
To:     Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@...hat.com>
Cc:     David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>,
        Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@...e.cz>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@...e.de>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        Qian Cai <cai@....pw>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@...nel.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Mike Rapoport <rppt@...ux.ibm.com>,
        Baoquan He <bhe@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/1] mm: compaction: avoid fast_isolate_around() to set pageblock_skip on reserved pages


> Am 25.11.2020 um 21:41 schrieb Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@...hat.com>:
> 
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 08:27:21PM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote:
>>> On 25.11.20 19:28, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 07:45:30AM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote:
>>>> Before that change, the memmap of memory holes were only zeroed
>>>> out. So the zones/nid was 0, however, pages were not reserved and
>>>> had a refcount of zero - resulting in other issues.
>>> 
>>> So maybe that "0,0" zoneid/nid was not actually the thing that
>>> introduced the regression? Note: I didn't bisect anything yet, it was
>>> just a guess.
>> 
>> I guess 0/0 is the issue, but that existed before when we had a simple
>> memmset(0). The root issue should be what Mike said:
> 
> Yes, the second stage must have stopped running somehow.
> 
> Is there anything we can do to induce a deterministically reproducible
> kernel crashing behavior if the second stage doesn't run?
> 
> Why did we start doing a more graceful initialization in the first
> stage, instead of making a less graceful by setting it to 0xff instead
> of 0x00?

I guess because we weren‘t aware of the issues we have :)

> 
>> 73a6e474cb37 ("mm: memmap_init: iterate over memblock regions rather
>> that check each PFN")
> 
> So if that's not intentional, are you suggesting nodeid/nid was a bug
> if it was set to 0,0 for a non-RAM valid pfn?
> 

Depends on how we think checks for reserved pages should be performed. I am more of a friend of indicating „this memmap is just garbage, skip it“. If the reserved flag is not good enough, then via a special node/zone - as you also suggest below.

>> "correct" is problematic. If you have an actual memory hole, there is
>> not always a right answer - unless I am missing something important.
>> 
>> 
>> Assume you have a layout like this
>> 
>> [  zone X ] [ hole ] [ zone Y ]
>> 
>> If either X and or Y starts within a memory section, you have a valid
>> memmap for X - but what would be the right node/zone?
>> 
>> 
>> Assume you have a layout like this
>> 
>> [ zone X ]
>> 
>> whereby X ends inside a memory section. The you hotplug memory. Assume
>> it goes to X
>> 
>> [ zone X ][ hole in X ][ zone X]
>> 
>> or it goes to y
>> 
>> [ zone X ][ hole ][ zone Y ]
>> 
>> This can easily be reproduced by starting a VM in qemu with a memory
>> size not aligned to 128 MB (e.g., -M 4000) and hotplugging memory.
> 
> I don't get what the problem is sorry.
> 
> You have a pfn, if pfn_valid() is true, pfn_to_page returns a page
> deterministically.
> 
> It's up to the kernel to decide which page structure blongs to any pfn
> in the pfn_to_page function.
> 
> Now if the pfn_to_page(pfn) function returns a page whose nid/zone_id
> in page->flags points to a node->zone whose zone_start_pfn -
> end_zone_pfn range doesn't contain "pfn" that is a bug in
> page_alloc.c.
> 
> I don't see how is it not possible to deterministically enforce the
> above never happens. Only then it would be true that there's not
> always a right answer.
> 
> zone can overlap, but it can't be that you do pfn_to_page of a
> pfn_valid and you obtain a page whose zone doesn't contain that
> pfn. Which is what is currently crashing compaction.
> 
> I don't see how this is an unsolvable problem and why we should accept
> to live with a bogus page->flags for reserved pages.
> 

I said it‘s problematic, not unsolvable. Using a special zone/node is certainly easier - but might reveal some issues we have to fix - I guess? Fair enough.

>> We can't. The general rule is (as I was once told by Michal IIRC) that
> 
> The fact we can't kernel crash reliably when somebody uses the wrong
> 0,0 uninitialized value by not adding an explicit PageReserved check,
> is my primary concern in keeping those nodeid/nid uninitialized, but
> non-kernel-crashing, since it already created this unreproducible bug.

Agreed.

> 
>> I'm not rooting for "keep this at 0/0" - I'm saying that I think there
>> are corner cases where it might not be that easy.
> 
> I'm not saying it's easy. What I don't see is how you don't always
> have the right answer and why it would be an unsolvable problem.

„Problematic“ does not imply unsolvable.

> 
> It is certainly problematic and difficult to solve in the mem_map
> iniitalization logic, but to me having pfn_valid() &&
> page_zone(pfn_to_page(pfn)) randomly returning the DMA zone on first
> node also looks problematic and difficult to handle across all VM
> code, so overall it looks preferable to keep the complexity of the
> mem_map initialization self contained and not spilling over the rest
> of the VM.
> 
>> Yes, but there is a "Some of these" :)
>> 
>> Boot a VM with "-M 4000" and observe the memmap in the last section -
>> they won't get initialized a second time.
> 
> Is the beyond the end of the zone yet another case? I guess that's
> less likely to give us problems because it's beyond the end of the
> zone. Would pfn_valid return true for those pfn? If pfn_valid is not

Yes. Especially, exposed after memory hotplug when zone/nid span changes.

> true it's not really a concern but the again I'd rather prefer if
> those struct pages beyond the end of the zone were kernel crashing set
> to 0xff.
> 
> In other words I just don't see why we should ever prefer to leave
> some pages at a graceful and erroneous nid 0 nodeid 0 that wouldn't
> easily induce a crash if used.

I agree.

> 
>> AFAIK, the mem_map array might have multiple NIDs - and it's set when
>> initializing the zones.
> 
> Well because there's no mem_map array with SPARSEMEM, but it's not
> conceptually too different than if there was one. Even with flatmem
> there could be multiple page struct for each pfn, the disambiguation
> has to be handled by pfn_to_page regardless of SPARSEMEM or not.
> 
> The point is that if zone_page(pfn_to_page(pfn)) points to DMA zone of
> first node, and the pfn isn't part of the DMA of first node that looks
> a bug and it can be enforced it doesn't happen.
> 
>> Well, "reserved" is not a good indication "what" something actually is.
>> 
>> I documented that a while ago in include/linux/page-flags.h
>> 
>> "PG_reserved is set for special pages. The "struct page" of such a page
>> should in general not be touched (e.g. set dirty) except by its owner.
>> Pages marked as PG_reserved include:."
>> 
>> I suggest looking at that.
>> 
>> AFAIR, we have been setting *most* memmap in memory holes/non-ram
>> reserved for a long time - long before I added the __init_single_page -
>> see init_reserved_page() for example.
> 
> Sure, non-RAM with valid page struct always has been marked
> PG_reserved. I wasn't suggesting that it shouldn't be PG_reserved.
> 
> I was pointing out that RAM can also be marked PG_reserved later by
> the kernel, long after boot, as you mentioned for all other cases of
> PG_reserved, the most notable are drivers doing PG_reserved after
> allocating RAM either vmalloc or GART swapping RAM around at other
> alias physical address.
> 
> That is all born as RAM at boot, it gets page->flags done right, with
> the right zoneid, and it becomes PG_reserved later.
> 
> So I was suggesting physical ranges "pfn" of non-RAM (be those holes
> withtin zones, or in between zones doesn't matter) with a pfn_valid
> returning true and a pfn_to_page pointing deterministically to one and
> only one struct page, should have such struct page initialized exactly
> the same as if it was RAM.
> 
> Either that or we can define a new NO_ZONE NO_ID id and crash in
> page_zonenum or page_to_nid if it is ever called on such a page
> struct.

I feel like that is easier and maybe cleaner. Mark memmaps that exist but should be completely ignored. Could even check that in pfn_valid() and return „false“ - might be expensive, though.

Anyhow, I do agree that properly catching these problematic pages, bailing out and fixing them (however we decide) is the right approach.

> 
> Thanks,
> Andrea

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