linux-kernel - Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead

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Date:   Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:56:17 +0900
From:   William Breathitt Gray <vilhelm.gray@...il.com>
To:     Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@...aro.org>
Cc:     Andy Shevchenko <andy.shevchenko@...il.com>,
        David Laight <David.Laight@...lab.com>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...nel.org>, Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>,
        Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Krzysztof Adamski <krzysztof.adamski@...ia.com>,
        Oleksij Rempel <o.rempel@...gutronix.de>,
        Baruch Siach <baruch@...s.co.il>,
        Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@...linux.org.uk>,
        Daniel Tang <dt.tangr@...il.com>,
        Uwe Kleine-König 
        <u.kleine-koenig@...gutronix.de>, Jamie Iles <jamie@...ieiles.com>,
        Barry Song <song.bao.hua@...ilicon.com>,
        Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@...aro.org>,
        Jonas Jensen <jonas.jensen@...il.com>,
        Marc Gonzalez <marc.w.gonzalez@...e.fr>,
        Hartley Sweeten <hsweeten@...ionengravers.com>,
        Lubomir Rintel <lkundrak@...sk>,
        Neil Armstrong <narmstrong@...libre.com>,
        Shawn Guo <shawnguo@...nel.org>, Alex Elder <elder@...aro.org>,
        Alexander Shiyan <shc_work@...l.ru>,
        Koen Vandeputte <koen.vandeputte@...ntric.com>,
        Hans Ulli Kroll <ulli.kroll@...glemail.com>,
        Vladimir Zapolskiy <vz@...ia.com>,
        Wei Xu <xuwei5@...ilicon.com>,
        Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
        Yoshinori Sato <ysato@...rs.osdn.me>,
        Mark Salter <msalter@...hat.com>,
        Michael Ellerman <mpe@...erman.id.au>,
        Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@...der.be>,
        Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@...ha.franken.de>
Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 09:30:28PM +0900, William Breathitt Gray wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:02:20PM +0100, Linus Walleij wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:27 AM Andy Shevchenko
> > <andy.shevchenko@...il.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM David Laight <David.Laight@...lab.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid
> > > > and (IIRC) rdtsc.
> > > > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable
> > > > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses.
> > > > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a
> > > > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues.
> > >
> > > Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs
> > > (486 core + few i586 features).
> > > This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use.
> > 
> > What is the status of PC/104?
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC/104
> > 
> > I have three GPIO drivers for PC/104 machines and these are for
> > embedded industrial usecases. I am curious about what CPUs these
> > beasts run on in practice? Are they getting upgraded?
> > 
> > Paging William, I think he work on these daily.
> > 
> > Yours,
> > Linus Walleij
> 
> I don't really see pure PC/104 systems around that much anymore, but
> there are still plenty of PC/104-Plus and PCI-104 setups in production.
> The PC/104 form factor is popular because users can stack PC/104
> compatible modules easily together to build custom solutions; see for
> example the diagram on this page:
> https://www.advantech.com/embedded-boards-design-in-services/embedded-single-board-computers/pc104-and-pc104-plus
> 
> As far as the CPU is concerned, these systems are typically for
> industrial applications and run CPUs geared for low-power consumption --
> you're looking at processor series such as the Intel Bay trail
> (https://www.winsystems.com/product/epx-c414/), DMP Vortex86DX
> (http://www.diamondsystems.com/products/helios), and AMD G-series
> (https://www.advantech.com/products/1-2jkltu/pcm-3356/mod_0706f4d5-2e44-473a-a7b7-53bd1a7bd1a0).
> 
> TLDR; PC/104 is certainly a niche market focused on industrial
> consumers, but the form factor and devices are still popular and
> upgraded reguarly.
> 
> William Breathitt Gray

Oops, I misread what you were asking. If you mean, are the systems that
run these PC/104 stackable devices running older processor series, then
yes that's typically the case.

It seems like newer systems have migrated to the PCIe/104 form factor,
which although having the same dimensions as the PC/104 form factor
lacks compatibility with PC/104 devices; for example:
https://www.rtd.com/i7/default.htm

I suspect the general trend in the market is moving towards these PCIe
modules because PC/104 ISA communication just lacks the bandwidth
necessary for many applications.

William Breathitt Gray

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