Message-ID: <a8377f54c68361ba1aba948704e631ac@codeaurora.org>
Date:   Wed, 20 Jan 2021 10:43:54 +0530
From:   Sai Prakash Ranjan <saiprakash.ranjan@...eaurora.org>
To:     Al Grant <Al.Grant@....com>
Cc:     Suzuki Poulose <Suzuki.Poulose@....com>,
        Mark Rutland <Mark.Rutland@....com>,
        Denis Nikitin <denik@...omium.org>,
        Mathieu Poirier <mathieu.poirier@...aro.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        linux-arm-msm@...r.kernel.org, coresight@...ts.linaro.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Stephen Boyd <swboyd@...omium.org>,
        Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        leo.yan@...aro.org, mnissler@...gle.com,
        linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org,
        Mike Leach <mike.leach@...aro.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] coresight: etm4x: Add config to exclude kernel mode
 tracing

Hi Al,

On 2021-01-19 17:26, Al Grant wrote:
>> From: Suzuki K Poulose <suzuki.poulose@....com>
>> On 1/19/21 9:51 AM, Sai Prakash Ranjan wrote:
>> > Hi Al,
>> >
>> > On 2021-01-19 14:06, Al Grant wrote:
>> >> Hi Sai,
>> >>
>> >>> From: saiprakash.ranjan=codeaurora.org@...codeaurora.org
>> >>> Hi Mathieu,
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2021-01-19 01:53, Mathieu Poirier wrote:
>> >>> > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 11:16:24AM +0530, Sai Prakash Ranjan wrote:
>> >>> >> Hello Mathieu, Suzuki
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On 2020-10-15 21:32, Mathieu Poirier wrote:
>> >>> >> > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 06:15:22PM +0530, Sai Prakash Ranjan wrote:
>> >>> >> > > On production systems with ETMs enabled, it is preferred to
>> >>> >> > > exclude kernel mode(NS EL1) tracing for security concerns and
>> >>> >> > > support only userspace(NS EL0) tracing. So provide an option
>> >>> >> > > via kconfig to exclude kernel mode tracing if it is required.
>> >>> >> > > This config is disabled by default and would not affect the
>> >>> >> > > current configuration which has both kernel and userspace
>> >>> >> > > tracing enabled by default.
>> >>> >> > >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > One requires root access (or be part of a special trace group)
>> >>> >> > to be able to use the cs_etm PMU.  With this kind of elevated
>> >>> >> > access restricting tracing at EL1 provides little in terms of security.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Apart from the VM usecase discussed, I am told there are other
>> >>> >> security concerns here regarding need to exclude kernel mode
>> >>> >> tracing even for the privileged users/root. One such case being
>> >>> >> the ability to analyze cryptographic code execution since ETMs
>> >>> >> can record all branch instructions including timestamps in the
>> >>> >> kernel and there may be other cases as well which I may not be
>> >>> >> aware of and hence have added Denis and Mattias. Please let us
>> >>> >> know if you have any questions further regarding this not being a security
>> concern.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Even if we were to apply this patch there are many ways to
>> >>> > compromise a system or get the kernel to reveal important
>> >>> > information using the perf subsystem.  I would perfer to tackle
>> >>> > the problem at that level rather than concentrating on coresight.
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Sorry but I did not understand your point. We are talking about the
>> >>> capabilities of coresight etm tracing which has the instruction level tracing
>> and a lot more.
>> >>> Perf subsystem is just the framework used for it.
>> >>> In other words, its not the perf subsystem which does instruction
>> >>> level tracing, its the coresight etm. Why the perf subsystem should
>> >>> be modified to lockdown kernel mode? If we were to let perf handle
>> >>> all the trace filtering for different exception levels, then why do
>> >>> we need the register settings in coresight etm driver to filter out
>> >>> NS EL* tracing? And more importantly, how do you suppose we handle sysfs
>> mode of coresight tracing with perf subsystem?
>> >>
>> >> You both have good points. Mathieu is right that this is not a
>> >> CoreSight issue specifically, it is a matter of kernel security
>> >> policy, and other hardware tracing mechanisms ought to be within its
>> >> scope. There should be a general "anti kernel exfiltration" config
>> >> that applies to all mechanisms within its scope, and we'd definitely expect
>> that to include Intel PT as well as ETM.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I agree with this part where there should be a generic config for all
>> > hardware tracing families(atleast for Intel PT and ARM Coresight),
>> > Suzuki suggested that as well. I am under the impression that Mathieu
>> > didn't like adding such a config and wanted perf subsystem to handle
>> > it since initial discussion was around whether root compromise meant
>> > everything is lost already and such a kconfig would not help, but
>> > Mattias already gave some good examples where that is not true.
>> >
>> >> A kernel config that forced exclude_kernel on all perf events would
>> >> deal with ETM and PT in one place, but miss the sysfs interface to ETM.
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, doing it in the ETM drivers would cover the perf
>> >> and sysfs interfaces to ETM, but would miss Intel PT.
>> >>
>> >> So I think what is needed is a general config option that is both
>> >> implemented in perf (excluding all kernel tracing events) and by any
>> >> drivers that provide an alternative interface to hardware tracing events.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I am good with this approach, once Mathieu confirms, I can add a
>> > kernel wide kconfig as Suzuki suggested earlier and make ETM{3,4}x as
>> > the initial users. Someone more familiar with Intel PTs can then make
>> > use of this kconfig.
>> 
>> Instead of adding the support for individual drivers, you could handle 
>> this in the
>> generic perf layer. e.g, Fail perf_event create with an attribute 
>> which allows
>> kernel tracing ?
>> 
>> if (!attr.exclude_kernel)
>> 	return -EINVAL;
>> 
>> Or even exclude the kernel silently always.
>> 
>> This could also be limited to PMUs with PERF_PMU_CAP_ITRACE, if you 
>> want to
>> limit this to PMUs that instruction level tracing.
> 
> The sysfs interface to ETM also needs to deny access to kernel trace, 
> so it's
> safest to enforce it in the drivers in addition to any enforcement done 
> in perf.
> 

Yes, it will be done in drivers for sysfs interface as well based on the
same kconfig.

> Also, forcing exclude_kernel on all perf events may be too strong. 
> Including
> the kernel in counted events e.g. cache misses can help understand the 
> effect
> of system calls on performance, and isn't a big side channel compared 
> to
> userspace event counts. It doesn't reveal detailed timings in the way
> trace does.
> 
> So there's an argument for locking out kernel trace specifically (ETM 
> or PT
> on the kernel); or even, for locking out timed trace with timestamps 
> and
> cycle counts, and allowing untimed trace. So, that could be done in 
> perf, with
> a more specific test on the type of event, before it forced 
> exclude_kernel.
> 

Yes exclude_kernel for all events might not be possible, so it would be
better if it is initially applied for PMUs with PERF_PMU_CAP_ITRACE as
Suzuki suggested.

Thanks,
Sai

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