linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v17 07/10] mm: introduce memfd_secret system call to create "secret" memory areas

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:38:10 +0100
From:   David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>
To:     jejb@...ux.ibm.com, Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>
Cc:     Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...ux.ibm.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>,
        Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>,
        Christopher Lameter <cl@...ux.com>,
        Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        Elena Reshetova <elena.reshetova@...el.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@...temov.name>,
        Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>,
        Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@....com>,
        Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@...il.com>,
        Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@...belt.com>,
        Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@...ive.com>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Rick Edgecombe <rick.p.edgecombe@...el.com>,
        Roman Gushchin <guro@...com>,
        Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@...gle.com>,
        Shuah Khan <shuah@...nel.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Tycho Andersen <tycho@...ho.ws>, Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>,
        linux-api@...r.kernel.org, linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org,
        linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-nvdimm@...ts.01.org, linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org,
        x86@...nel.org, Hagen Paul Pfeifer <hagen@...u.net>,
        Palmer Dabbelt <palmerdabbelt@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v17 07/10] mm: introduce memfd_secret system call to
 create "secret" memory areas

On 17.02.21 17:19, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Tue, 2021-02-16 at 18:16 +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote:
> [...]
>>>>    The discussion regarding migratability only really popped up
>>>> because this is a user-visible thing and not being able to
>>>> migrate can be a real problem (fragmentation, ZONE_MOVABLE, ...).
>>>
>>> I think the biggest use will potentially come from hardware
>>> acceleration.  If it becomes simple to add say encryption to a
>>> secret page with no cost, then no flag needed.  However, if we only
>>> have a limited number of keys so once we run out no more encrypted
>>> memory then it becomes a costly resource and users might want a
>>> choice of being backed by encryption or not.
>>
>> Right. But wouldn't HW support with configurable keys etc. need more
>> syscall parameters (meaning, even memefd_secret() as it is would not
>> be sufficient?). I suspect the simplistic flag approach might not
>> be sufficient. I might be wrong because I have no clue about MKTME
>> and friends.
> 
> The theory I was operating under is key management is automatic and
> hidden, but key scarcity can't be, so if you flag requesting hardware
> backing then you either get success (the kernel found a key) or failure
> (the kernel is out of keys).  If we actually want to specify the key
> then we need an extra argument and we *must* have a new system call.
> 
>> Anyhow, I still think extending memfd_create() might just be good
>> enough - at least for now.
> 
> I really think this is the wrong approach for a user space ABI.  If we
> think we'll ever need to move to a separate syscall, we should begin
> with one.  The pain of trying to shift userspace from memfd_create to a
> new syscall would be enormous.  It's not impossible (see clone3) but
> it's a pain we should avoid if we know it's coming.

Sorry for the late reply, there is just too much going on :)

*If* we ever realize we need to pass more parameters we can easily have 
a new syscall for that purpose. *Then*, we know how that syscall will 
look like. Right now, it's just pure speculation.

Until then, going with memfd_create() works just fine IMHO.

The worst think that could happen is that we might not be able to create 
all fancy sectremem flavors in the future via memfd_create() but only 
via different, highly specialized syscall. I don't see a real problem 
with that.

-- 
Thanks,

David / dhildenb