linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 1/5] rpmb: add Replay Protected Memory Block (RPMB) subsystem

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:44:56 +0530
From:   Sumit Garg <sumit.garg@...aro.org>
To:     Hector Martin <marcan@...can.st>,
        Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@...aro.org>
Cc:     Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...aro.org>,
        "open list:ASYMMETRIC KEYS" <keyrings@...r.kernel.org>,
        David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
        Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@...nel.org>,
        Joakim Bech <joakim.bech@...aro.org>,
        Alex Bennée <alex.bennee@...aro.org>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Maxim Uvarov <maxim.uvarov@...aro.org>,
        Ilias Apalodimas <ilias.apalodimas@...aro.org>,
        Ruchika Gupta <ruchika.gupta@...aro.org>,
        "Winkler, Tomas" <tomas.winkler@...el.com>, yang.huang@...el.com,
        bing.zhu@...el.com, Matti.Moell@...nsynergy.com,
        hmo@...nsynergy.com, linux-mmc <linux-mmc@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-scsi <linux-scsi@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-nvme@...r.kernel.org, Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@...aro.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd.bergmann@...aro.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/5] rpmb: add Replay Protected Memory Block (RPMB) subsystem

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 at 02:47, Hector Martin <marcan@...can.st> wrote:
>
> On 09/03/2021 01.20, Linus Walleij wrote:
> > I suppose it would be a bit brutal if the kernel would just go in and
> > appropriate any empty RPMB it finds, but I suspect it is the right way
> > to make use of this facility given that so many of them are just sitting
> > there unused. Noone will run $CUSTOM_UTILITY any more than they
> > run the current RPMB tools in mmc-tools.
>
> AIUI the entire thing relies on a shared key that is programmed once
> into the RPMB device, which is a permanent operation. This key has to be
> secure, usually stored on CPU fuses or derived based on such a root of
> trust. To me it would seem ill-advised to attempt to automate this
> process and have the kernel do a permanent take-over of any RPMBs it
> finds (with what key, for one?) :)
>

Wouldn't it be a good idea to use DT here to represent whether a
particular RPMB is used as a TEE backup or is available for normal
kernel usage?

In case of normal kernel usage, I think the RPMB key can come from
trusted and encrypted keys subsystem.

-Sumit

> For what it's worth, these days I think Apple uses a separate, dedicated
> secure element for replay protected storage, not RPMB. That seems like a
> sane approach, given that obviously Flash storage vendors cannot be
> trusted to write security-critical firmware. But if all you have is
> RPMB, using it is better than nothing.
>
> The main purpose of the RPMB is, as the name implies, replay protection.
> You can do secure storage on any random flash with encryption, and even
> do full authentication with hash trees, but the problem is no matter how
> fancy your scheme is, attackers can always dump all memory and roll your
> device back to the past. This defeats stuff like PIN code attempt
> limits. So it isn't so much for storing crypto keys or such, but rather
> a way to prevent these attacks.
>
> --
> Hector Martin (marcan@...can.st)
> Public Key: https://mrcn.st/pub