Message-ID: <YHRei8/8cIe6BNtE@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
Date:   Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:51:55 +0200
From:   Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
To:     Christoph Müllner <christophm30@...il.com>
Cc:     Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@...belt.com>,
        Anup Patel <anup@...infault.org>, Guo Ren <guoren@...nel.org>,
        linux-riscv <linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Guo Ren <guoren@...ux.alibaba.com>, catalin.marinas@....com,
        will.deacon@....com, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] riscv: locks: introduce ticket-based spinlock
 implementation


Please fix your mailer to properly flow text. Reflowed it for you.

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 03:32:27PM +0200, Christoph Müllner wrote:

> This discussion came up again a few weeks ago because I've been
> stumbling over the test-and-set implementation and was wondering if
> nobody cared to improve that yet.

> Then I saw, that there have been a few attempts so far, but they did
> not land.  So I brought this up in RVI's platform group meeting and
> the attendees showed big interest to get at least fairness. I assume
> Guo sent out his new patchset as a reaction to this call (1 or 2 days
> later).
> 
> We have the same situation on OpenSBI, where we've agreed (with Anup)
> to go for a ticket lock implementation.  A series for that can be
> found here (the implementation was tested in the kernel):
> http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/opensbi/2021-April/000789.html
> 
> In the mentioned RVI call, I've asked the question if ticket locks or
> MCF locks are preferred.  And the feedback was to go for
> qspinlock/qrwlock. One good argument to do so would be, to not have to
> maintain an RV-specific implementation, but to use a well-tested
> in-kernel mechanism.

qrwlock does not depend on qspinlock; any fair spinlock implementation
works, including ticket.

> The feedback in the call is also aligned with the previous attempts to
> enable MCF-locks on RV.  However, the kernel's implementation requires
> sub-word atomics. And here is, where we are.  The discussion last week
> was about changing the generic kernel code to loosen its requirements
> (not accepted because of performance regressions on e.g. x86) and if
> RV actually can provide sub-word atomics in form of LL/SC loops (yes,
> that's possible).

So qspinlock is a complex and fickle beast. Yes it works on x86 and
arm64 (Will and Catalin put a _lot_ of effort into that), but IMO using
such a complex thing needs to be provably better than the trivial and
simple thing (tickets, test-and-set).

Part of that is fwd progress, if you don't have that, stay with
test-and-set. Will fixed a number of issues there, and -RT actually hit
at least one.

Debugging non-deterministic lock behaviour is not on the fun list.
Having something simple (ticket) to fall back to to prove it's your lock
going 'funneh' is very useful.

> Providing sub-word xchg() can be done within a couple of hours (some
> solutions are already on the list), but that was not enough from the
> initial patchset from Michael on (e.g. Christoph Hellwig asked back
> then for moving arch-independent parts into lib, which is a good idea
> given other archs do the same).  So I expect this might require some
> more time until there is a solution, that's accepted by a broad range
> of maintainers.

Using a lib/ cmpxchg based xchg16 is daft. Per the very same arguments I
made elsewhere in the thread. cmpxchg() based loops have very difficult
fwd progress guarantees, esp. so on LL/SC architectures.

What I would do is create a common inline helper to compute that {addr,
mask, val} setup with a comment on how to use it.

(As is, we have at least 2 different ways of dealing with ENDIAN-ness)

> I've been working on a new MCF-lock series last week.  It is working,
> but I did not publish it yet, because I wanted to go through the 130+
> emails on the riscv-linux list and check for overseen review comments
> and validate the patch authors.

> You can find the current state here:
> https://github.com/cmuellner/linux/pull/new/riscv-spinlocks 

That's not public. But if that's not qspinlock, how are you justifying a
complex spinlock implementation? Does it perform better than ticket?

> So, if you insist on ticket locks, then let's coordinate who will do
> that and how it will be tested (RV32/RV64, qemu vs real hw).

Real hardware is all that counts :-)

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