linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v18 0/9] mm: introduce memfd_secret system call to create "secret" memory areas

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <a5b19a4f-5d7b-9840-fd70-67a39bc8969e@redhat.com>
Date:   Thu, 6 May 2021 19:24:43 +0200
From:   David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>
To:     jejb@...ux.ibm.com, Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org>
Cc:     Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>,
        Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>,
        Christopher Lameter <cl@...ux.com>,
        Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        Elena Reshetova <elena.reshetova@...el.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@...temov.name>,
        Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>,
        Matthew Garrett <mjg59@...f.ucam.org>,
        Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@....com>,
        Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...ux.ibm.com>,
        Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@...il.com>,
        Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@...belt.com>,
        Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@...ive.com>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...ysocki.net>,
        Rick Edgecombe <rick.p.edgecombe@...el.com>,
        Roman Gushchin <guro@...com>,
        Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@...gle.com>,
        Shuah Khan <shuah@...nel.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Tycho Andersen <tycho@...ho.ws>, Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>,
        linux-api@...r.kernel.org, linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org,
        linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-nvdimm@...ts.01.org, linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org,
        x86@...nel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v18 0/9] mm: introduce memfd_secret system call to create
 "secret" memory areas

>>>> Is this intended to protect keys/etc after the attacker has
>>>> gained the ability to run arbitrary kernel-mode code?  If so,
>>>> that seems optimistic, doesn't it?
>>>
>>> Not exactly: there are many types of kernel attack, but mostly the
>>> attacker either manages to effect a privilege escalation to root or
>>> gets the ability to run a ROP gadget.  The object of this code is
>>> to be completely secure against root trying to extract the secret
>>> (some what similar to the lockdown idea), thus defeating privilege
>>> escalation and to provide "sufficient" protection against ROP
>>> gadget.
>>
>> What stops "root" from mapping /dev/mem and reading that memory?
> 
> /dev/mem uses the direct map for the copy at least for read/write, so
> it gets a fault in the same way root trying to use ptrace does.  I
> think we've protected mmap, but Mike would know that better than I.
> 

I'm more concerned about the mmap case -> remap_pfn_range(). Anybody 
going via the VMA shouldn't see the struct page, at least when 
vma_normal_page() is properly used; so you cannot detect secretmem
memory mapped via /dev/mem reliably. At least that's my theory :)

[...]

>> Also, there is a way to still read that memory when root by
>>
>> 1. Having kdump active (which would often be the case, but maybe not
>> to dump user pages )
>> 2. Triggering a kernel crash (easy via proc as root)
>> 3. Waiting for the reboot after kump() created the dump and then
>> reading the content from disk.
> 
> Anything that can leave physical memory intact but boot to a kernel
> where the missing direct map entry is restored could theoretically
> extract the secret.  However, it's not exactly going to be a stealthy
> extraction ...
> 
>> Or, as an attacker, load a custom kexec() kernel and read memory
>> from the new environment. Of course, the latter two are advanced
>> mechanisms, but they are possible when root. We might be able to
>> mitigate, for example, by zeroing out secretmem pages before booting
>> into the kexec kernel, if we care :)
> 
> I think we could handle it by marking the region, yes, and a zero on
> shutdown might be useful ... it would prevent all warm reboot type
> attacks.

Right. But I guess when you're actually root, you can just write a 
kernel module to extract the information you need (unless we have signed 
modules, so it could be harder/impossible).

-- 
Thanks,

David / dhildenb