linux-kernel - Re: [clocksource] 8901ecc231: stress-ng.lockbus.ops_per

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <YK/zHMPSZSKrmXC6@casper.infradead.org>
Date:   Thu, 27 May 2021 20:29:32 +0100
From:   Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>
To:     "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>
Cc:     Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>, Feng Tang <feng.tang@...el.com>,
        kernel test robot <oliver.sang@...el.com>,
        John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Stephen Boyd <sboyd@...nel.org>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
        Mark Rutland <Mark.Rutland@....com>,
        Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org>,
        Xing Zhengjun <zhengjun.xing@...ux.intel.com>,
        Chris Mason <clm@...com>, LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux Memory Management List <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        lkp@...ts.01.org, lkp@...el.com, ying.huang@...el.com,
        zhengjun.xing@...el.com
Subject: Re: [clocksource] 8901ecc231: stress-ng.lockbus.ops_per_sec -9.5%
 regression

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:19:23PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:01:23PM -0700, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > 
> > >      Nevertheless, it is quite possible that real-world use will result in
> > >      some situation requiring that high-stress workloads run on hardware
> > >      not designed to accommodate them, and also requiring that the kernel
> > >      refrain from marking clocksources unstable.
> > >      Therefore, provide an out-of-tree patch that reacts to this situation
> > 
> > out-of-tree means it will not be submitted?
> > 
> > I think it would make sense upstream, but perhaps guarded with some option.
> 
> The reason I do not intend to immediately upstream this patch is that
> it increases the probability that a real clocksource read-latency issue
> will be ignored, for example, during hardware bringup.  Furthermore,
> the only known need from it comes from hardware that is, in the words
> of the stress-ng man page, "poorly designed".  And the timing of this
> email thread leads me to believe that such hardware is not easy to obtain.

I think you're placing a little too much weight on the documentation
here.  It seems that a continuous stream of locked operations executed
in userspace on a single CPU can cause this problem to occur.  If that's
true all the way out to one guest in a hypervisor can cause problems
for the hypervisor itself, I think cloud providers everywhere are
going to want this patch?

> My thought is therefore to keep this patch out of tree for now.
> If it becomes clear that long-latency clocksource reads really are
> a significant issue in their own right (as opposed to merely being a
> symptom of a hardware or firmware bug), then this patch is available to
> immediately respond to that issue.
> 
> And there would then be strong evidence in favor of me biting the bullet,
> adding the complexity and the additional option (with your Suggested-by),
> and getting that upstream and into -stable.
> 
> Seem reasonable?
> 
> 							Thanx, Paul
>