Message-ID: <20210610133005.GA30309@e120325.cambridge.arm.com>
Date:   Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:30:06 +0100
From:   Beata Michalska <beata.michalska@....com>
To:     Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org>
Cc:     Valentin Schneider <valentin.schneider@....com>,
        Quentin Perret <qperret@...gle.com>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Qais Yousef <qais.yousef@....com>,
        Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@...aro.org>,
        Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@...aro.org>
Subject: Re: iowait boost is broken

On Tue, Jun 08, 2021 at 03:09:37PM -0400, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> Hi Beata,
> 
> On Mon, Jun 07, 2021 at 08:10:32PM +0100, Beata Michalska wrote:
> > Hi Joel,
> > 
> > Thanks for sending this out.
> 
> Np, thanks for replying.
> 
> > On Mon, Jun 07, 2021 at 12:19:01PM -0400, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > Looks like iowait boost is completely broken upstream. Just
> > > documenting my findings of iowait boost issues:
> > > 
> > I wouldn't go as far to state that it is completely broken. Rather that
> > the current sugov implementation for iowait boosting is not meeting
> > the expectations and I believe this should be clarified first. More on those
> > expectations below.
> > > 1. If a CPU requests iowait boost in a cluster, another CPU can go
> > > ahead and reset very quickly it since it thinks there's no new request
> > > for the iowait boosting CPU
> > So the 'boosting' value is being tracked per CPU, so each core in a cluster
> > will have it's own variant of that. When calculating the shared freq for
> > the cluster, sugov will use max utilization reported on each core, including
> > I/O boost. Now, if there is no pending request for boosting on a given core
> > at the time of calling sugov_iowait_apply, the current 'boost' will be
> > reduced, but only this one and that will not affect boost values on remaining
> > CPUs. It means that there was no task waking up on that particular CPU after
> > waiting on I/O request. So I would say it's fine. Unless I am misunderstanding
> > your case ?
> 
> Yes, but consider the case where the I/O is slow on one CPU (call it X) so
> say IO wait takes 2 milliseconds. Now another CPU (call it Y) is
> continuiously making cpufreq requests much faster than that. Also consider
> that the slow CPU X is doing back to back I/O request and has consecutive
> I/O sleep time (no other sleep, just I/O sleep). What you'll see is the
> CPU X's boost always stays at _MIN boost when it wakes up because Y reset it
> to 0 in the meanwhile. So the boost never accumulates. Does that make sense?
> I would say that the I/O CPU should have a 'doubling' of boost. Probably the
> issue can be solved by making rate_limit_us longer than the iowait time. But
> that seems like a hack and would likely cause other issues.
>
OK, I think I see your point now.
So another issue to be added to the list.
Not sure though twiddling with rate_limit_us would do any good. This can be
already tweaked from sysfs but it touches on the freq transition delays so
I wouldn't mess around with that just to tune I/O boosting.
I'd still rather move the boosting outside of sugov - as much as possible at
least.
---
BR
B.
> > > 2. If the iowait is longer than a tick, then successive iowait boost
> > > doubling does not happen. So heavy I/O waiting code never gets a
> > > boost.
> > This might indeed be an issue. What's more: the fact that boosting is applied
> > per core, any migration will disregard the boosting applied so far, so
> > it might start increasing the freq on 'new' CPU from scratch.
> > Might, as sugov (and the I/O boosting) has no notion of the source of boosting
> > request so it might end up on a core that has already lifted I/O boost.
> > This also means, that having different small tasks, waking up from
> > I/O within the mentioned TICK_NSEC time window might drive the frequency to max
> > even though those would be sporadic wakeups. Things get slightly
> > cumbersome as increasing the boost does not necessarily result in the freq
> > change, so the above mentioned case would need proper timing but it is possible.
> > Also the boost value will not get doubled unless previous one has been applied.
> > This might result in misalignment between task wake-ups/placement and sugov's
> > freq changes.
> 
> Agreed, there are many issues, thanks for highlighting.
> 
> > > 3. update_load_avg() is triggered right after the the iowait boost
> > > request which makes another cpufreq update request, this request is a
> > > non-iowait boost one so it ends up resetting the iowait boost request
> > > (in the same path!).
> > Not necessarily - this is guarded by the TICK_NSEC you have mentioned:
> > in
> >     sugov_iowait_reset {
> >          ...
> >          if (delta_ns <= TICK_NSEC)
> >              return;
> >          ...
> >     }
> > So for the particular call sequence the boost should not get reset.
> > Another problem is when the non-I/O bound tasks triggers the update
> > after the TICK_NSEC has elapsed and before the frequency change is done.
> > (see sugov_should_update_freq )
> 
> Oh yeah. You are quite right on this particular issue. I agree it shouldn't
> reset. So I wonder what I was seeing for #3 then... Hopefully delta_ns can be
> trusted..
> 
> > > 4. Same as #3 but due the update_blocked_averages from new idle balance path.
> > > 
> > > Here is a patch that tries to address these problems and I see better
> > > cpufreq boosting happening, however it is just a test broken patch to
> > > highlight the issues:
> > > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jfern/linux.git/commit/?h=sched/5.4/iowait-boost-debug-1&id=3627d896d499d168fef9a388e5d6b3359acc3423
> > > 
> > > I think we ought to rewrite the whole mess instead of fixing it since
> > > a lot has changed in scheduler code over time it feels. Beata is
> > > working on rewriting the whole iowait boost infra, I am glad she has
> > > started the work on this and looking forward to helping with the
> > > patches.
> > > 
> > So back to the expectations.
> > The main problem, as I see it, is what do we actually want to achieve with
> > the I/O boosting? Is it supposed to compensate the time lost while waiting
> > for the I/O request to be completed or is is supposed to optimize the rate
> > at which I/O requests are being made. Do we want to boost I/O bound tasks by
> > default, no limits applied  or should we care about balancing performance
> > vs power ? And unless those expectations are clearly stated, we might not
> > get too far with any changes, really.
> 
> Yeah part of the problem its not clear how much boost is 'ideal'. However, not having any boost at all or a
> boost too low for heavy I/O seems a clear issues. I guess some boost will be
> better than no boost. But I agree its hard to design an algorithm that fits
> everything.
> 
> > Smth that I do agree with is what has been suggested few times by Quentin,
> > to make the I/O boosting being a per-task feature, not per-core, and that is
> > smth I have been experimenting with.
> 
> Yeah I agree with that too.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joel
> 

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