Message-ID: <CAL_Jsq+3a0FZxNGoFqBWkj4kKDBB1YtjcY0h4tvbNPus9F4XOA@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Wed, 23 Jun 2021 07:54:15 -0600
From:   Rob Herring <robh@...nel.org>
To:     Doug Anderson <dianders@...omium.org>
Cc:     Saravana Kannan <saravanak@...gle.com>,
        Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@....com>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>,
        "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@...el.com>,
        Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, Joerg Roedel <joro@...tes.org>,
        Bjorn Andersson <bjorn.andersson@...aro.org>,
        Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@...aro.org>,
        Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@...el.com>,
        Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@...gle.com>,
        Rob Clark <robdclark@...omium.org>,
        linux-arm-msm <linux-arm-msm@...r.kernel.org>,
        PCI <linux-pci@...r.kernel.org>, quic_c_gdjako@...cinc.com,
        "list@....net:IOMMU DRIVERS <iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org>, Joerg
        Roedel <joro@...tes.org>," <iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
        Sonny Rao <sonnyrao@...omium.org>,
        Sai Prakash Ranjan <saiprakash.ranjan@...eaurora.org>,
        Linux MMC List <linux-mmc@...r.kernel.org>,
        Veerabhadrarao Badiganti <vbadigan@...eaurora.org>,
        Rajat Jain <rajatja@...gle.com>,
        Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org>,
        Andy Gross <agross@...nel.org>,
        Bartosz Golaszewski <bgolaszewski@...libre.com>,
        Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>,
        Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>,
        Heikki Krogerus <heikki.krogerus@...ux.intel.com>,
        Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/6] iommu: Enable devices to request non-strict DMA,
 starting with QCom SD/MMC

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 2:10 PM Doug Anderson <dianders@...omium.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 1:06 PM Saravana Kannan <saravanak@...gle.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 1:02 PM Rob Herring <robh@...nel.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 09:06:02AM -0700, Doug Anderson wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 4:35 AM Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@....com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Doug,
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2021-06-22 00:52, Douglas Anderson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This patch attempts to put forward a proposal for enabling non-strict
> > > > > > DMA on a device-by-device basis. The patch series requests non-strict
> > > > > > DMA for the Qualcomm SDHCI controller as a first device to enable,
> > > > > > getting a nice bump in performance with what's believed to be a very
> > > > > > small drop in security / safety (see the patch for the full argument).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As part of this patch series I am end up slightly cleaning up some of
> > > > > > the interactions between the PCI subsystem and the IOMMU subsystem but
> > > > > > I don't go all the way to fully remove all the tentacles. Specifically
> > > > > > this patch series only concerns itself with a single aspect: strict
> > > > > > vs. non-strict mode for the IOMMU. I'm hoping that this will be easier
> > > > > > to talk about / reason about for more subsystems compared to overall
> > > > > > deciding what it means for a device to be "external" or "untrusted".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If something like this patch series ends up being landable, it will
> > > > > > undoubtedly need coordination between many maintainers to land. I
> > > > > > believe it's fully bisectable but later patches in the series
> > > > > > definitely depend on earlier ones. Sorry for the long CC list. :(
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately, this doesn't work. In normal operation, the default
> > > > > domains should be established long before individual drivers are even
> > > > > loaded (if they are modules), let alone anywhere near probing. The fact
> > > > > that iommu_probe_device() sometimes gets called far too late off the
> > > > > back of driver probe is an unfortunate artefact of the original
> > > > > probe-deferral scheme, and causes other problems like potentially
> > > > > malformed groups - I've been forming a plan to fix that for a while now,
> > > > > so I for one really can't condone anything trying to rely on it.
> > > > > Non-deterministic behaviour based on driver probe order for multi-device
> > > > > groups is part of the existing problem, and your proposal seems equally
> > > > > vulnerable to that too.
> > > >
> > > > Doh! :( I definitely can't say I understand the iommu subsystem
> > > > amazingly well. It was working for me, but I could believe that I was
> > > > somehow violating a rule somewhere.
> > > >
> > > > I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding where the problem is
> > > > though. Is there any chance that you missed the part of my series
> > > > where I introduced a "pre_probe" step? Specifically, I see this:
> > > >
> > > > * really_probe() is called w/ a driver and a device.
> > > > * -> calls dev->bus->dma_configure() w/ a "struct device *"
> > > > * -> eventually calls iommu_probe_device() w/ the device.
> > > > * -> calls iommu_alloc_default_domain() w/ the device
> > > > * -> calls iommu_group_alloc_default_domain()
> > > > * -> always allocates a new domain
> > > >
> > > > ...so we always have a "struct device" when a domain is allocated if
> > > > that domain is going to be associated with a device.
> > > >
> > > > I will agree that iommu_probe_device() is called before the driver
> > > > probe, but unless I missed something it's after the device driver is
> > > > loaded.  ...and assuming something like patch #1 in this series looks
> > > > OK then iommu_probe_device() will be called after "pre_probe".
> > > >
> > > > So assuming I'm not missing something, I'm not actually relying the
> > > > IOMMU getting init off the back of driver probe.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > FWIW we already have a go-faster knob for people who want to tweak the
> > > > > security/performance compromise for specific devices, namely the sysfs
> > > > > interface for changing a group's domain type before binding the relevant
> > > > > driver(s). Is that something you could use in your application, say from
> > > > > an initramfs script?
> > > >
> > > > We've never had an initramfs script in Chrome OS. I don't know all the
> > > > history of why (I'm trying to check), but I'm nearly certain it was a
> > > > conscious decision. Probably it has to do with the fact that we're not
> > > > trying to build a generic distribution where a single boot source can
> > > > boot a huge variety of hardware. We generally have one kernel for a
> > > > class of devices. I believe avoiding the initramfs just keeps things
> > > > simpler.
> > > >
> > > > I think trying to revamp Chrome OS to switch to an initramfs type
> > > > system would be a pretty big undertaking since (as I understand it)
> > > > you can't just run a little command and then return to the normal boot
> > > > flow. Once you switch to initramfs you're committing to finding /
> > > > setting up the rootfs yourself and on Chrome OS I believe that means a
> > > > whole bunch of dm-verity work.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ...so probably the initramfs is a no-go for me, but I'm still crossing
> > > > my fingers that the pre_probe() might be legit if you take a second
> > > > look at it?
> > >
> > > Couldn't you have a driver flag that has the same effect as twiddling
> > > sysfs? At the being of probe, check the flag and go set the underlying
> > > sysfs setting in the device.
> >
> > My understanding of what Robin is saying is that we'd need this info
> > well before the driver is even available. The pre_probe() is
> > effectively doing the same thing you are suggesting.
>
> Right, I was just about to respond with the same. ;-) So overall right
> now we're blocked waiting for someone to point out the error in my
> logic. ;-)

Okay, I don't see how sysfs would work in that case either. You can't
assume the driver is not available until after sysfs. But I'll defer
to others...

> > > Though you may want this to be per device, not per driver. To do that
> > > early, I think you'd need a DT property. I wouldn't be totally opposed
> > > to that and I appreciate you not starting there. :)
> >
> > Which is what I'm suggest elsewhere in the thread:
> >
> > https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAGETcx83qCZF5JN5cqXxdSFiEgfc4jYESJg-RepL2wJXJv0Eww@mail.gmail.com/
>
> Rob: I'd be happy if you wanted to comment on that thread. If you say
> that it's fine to add a generic device tree property to control
> strictness then I'm more than happy to add support for it. I've been
> going on the theory that you'd NAK such a property but I'm totally
> good with being wrong. ;-)
>
> I'd be more than happy if you could suggest what you'd envision such a
> property to be named.

You want me to do the hard part? ;)

Would this work as a flag in iommus cell (either another cell or bit
in the existing cell)?

You could go the compatible match list route as well. At least until
you work out the kernel implementation.

Rob

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