Date:   Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:36:51 +0800
From:   Feng Tang <feng.tang@...el.com>
To:     "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>,
        Waiman Long <longman@...hat.com>
Cc:     Waiman Long <longman@...hat.com>,
        John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Stephen Boyd <sboyd@...nel.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Cassio Neri <cassio.neri@...il.com>,
        Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@...aro.org>,
        Colin Ian King <colin.king@...onical.com>,
        Frederic Weisbecker <frederic@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] clocksource: Avoid accidental unstable marking of
 clocksources

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 06:07:09AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 03:59:15PM +0800, Feng Tang wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 10:24:56PM -0500, Waiman Long wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 11/14/21 21:08, Feng Tang wrote:
> > > > Or did you have something else in mind?
> > > > > > > I'm not sure the detail in  Waiman's cases, and in our cases (stress-ng)
> > > > > > > the delay between watchdog's (HPET here) read were not linear, that
> > > > > > > from debug data, sometimes the 3-2 difference could be bigger or much
> > > > > > > bigger than the 2-1 difference.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The reason could be the gap between 2 reads depends hugely on the system
> > > > > > > pressure at that time that 3 HPET read happens. On our test box (a
> > > > > > > 2-Socket Cascade Lake AP server), the 2-1 and 3-2 difference are stably
> > > > > > > about 2.5 us,  while under the stress it could be bumped to from 6 us
> > > > > > > to 2800 us.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > So I think checking the 3-2 difference plus increasing the max retries
> > > > > > > to 10 may be a simple way, if the watchdog read is found to be
> > > > > > > abnormally long, we skip this round of check.
> > > > > > On one of the test system, I had measured that normal delay
> > > > > > (hpet->tsc->hpet) was normally a bit over 2us. It was a bit more than 4us at
> > > > > > bootup time. However, the same system under stress could have a delay of
> > > > > > over 200us at bootup time. When I measured the consecutive hpet delay, it
> > > > > > was about 180us. So hpet read did dominate the total clocksource read delay.
> > > > > Thank you both for the data!
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I would not suggest increasing the max retries as it may still fail in most
> > > > > > cases because the system stress will likely not be going away within a short
> > > > > > time. So we are likely just wasting cpu times. I believe we should just skip
> > > > > > it if it is the watchdog read that is causing most of the delay.
> > > > > If anything, adding that extra read would cause me to -reduce- the number
> > > > > of retries to avoid increasing the per-watchdog overhead.
> > > > I understand Waiman's concern here, and in our test patch, the 2
> > > > consecutive watchdog read delay check is done inside this retrying
> > > > loop accompanying the 'cs' read, and once an abnormal delay is found,
> > > > the watchdog check is skipped without waiting for the max-retries to
> > > > complete.
> > > > 
> > > > Our test data shows the consecutive delay is not always big even when
> > > > the system is much stressed, that's why I suggest to increase the
> > > > retries.
> > > 
> > > If we need a large number of retries to avoid triggering the unstable TSC
> > > message, we should consider increase the threshod instead. Right?
> > > 
> > > That is why my patch 2 makes the max skew value a configurable option so
> > > that we can tune it if necessary.
> > 
> > I'm fine with it, though the ideal case I expected is with carefully
> > picked values for max_retries/screw_threshhold, we could save the users
> > from configuring these. But given the complexity of all HWs out there,
> > it's not an easy goal.
> 
> That is my goal as well, but I expect that more experience, testing,
> and patches will be required to reach that goal.
> 
> > And I still suggest to put the consecutive watchdog read check inside
> > the retry loop, so that it could bail out early when detecting the
> > abnormal delay.
> 
> If the HPET read shows abnormal delay, agreed.  But if the abnormal
> delay is only in the clocksource under test (TSC in this case), then
> a re-read seems to me to make sense.

Yes, I agree. The retry logic you introeduced does help to filter
many false alarms from a watchdog. 

> > Another thing is we may need to set the 'watchdog_reset_pending', as
> > under the stress, there could be consecutive many times of "skipping"
> > watchdog check, and the saved value of 'cs' and 'watchdog' should be
> > reset.
> 
> My thought was to count a read failure only if the HPET read did not
> have excessive delays.  This means that a cache-buster workload could 
> indefinitely delay a clock-skew check, which was one reason that I
> was thinking in terms of using the actual measured delays to set the
> clock-skew check criterion.
> 
> Either way, something like Waiman's patch checking the HPET delay looks
> to me to be valuable.

Yes, and Wainman is working on a new version.

btw, here is our easy reproducer (the case you have worked with Oliver
Sang), running the stress-ng's case (192 is the CPU number of the test
box):

 sudo stress-ng --timeout 30 --times --verify --metrics-brief --ioport 192

Thanks,
Feng

> Thoughts?
> 
> 							Thanx, Paul

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