linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 0/4] namespacefs: Proof-of-Concept

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Message-ID: <87pmqxuv4n.fsf@email.froward.int.ebiederm.org>
Date:   Thu, 18 Nov 2021 13:22:16 -0600
From:   ebiederm@...ssion.com (Eric W. Biederman)
To:     Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>
Cc:     "Yordan Karadzhov \(VMware\)" <y.karadz@...il.com>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
        viro@...iv.linux.org.uk, mingo@...hat.com, hagen@...u.net,
        rppt@...nel.org, James.Bottomley@...senPartnership.com,
        akpm@...ux-foundation.org, vvs@...tuozzo.com, shakeelb@...gle.com,
        christian.brauner@...ntu.com, mkoutny@...e.com,
        Linux Containers <containers@...ts.linux.dev>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/4] namespacefs: Proof-of-Concept

Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org> writes:

> On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 12:55:07 -0600
> ebiederm@...ssion.com (Eric W. Biederman) wrote:
>
>> Nacked-by: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>
>> 
>> Eric
>
> Eric, 
>
> As you can see, the subject says "Proof-of-Concept" and every patch in the
> the series says "RFC". All you did was point out problems with no help in
> fixing those problems, and then gave a nasty Nacked-by before it even got
> into a conversation.
>
> From this response, I have to say:
>
>   It is not correct to nack a proof of concept that is asking for
>   discussion.
>
> So, I nack your nack, because it's way to early to nack this.

I am refreshing my nack on the concept.  My nack has been in place for
good technical reasons since about 2006.

I see no way forward.  I do not see a compelling use case.

There have been many conversations in the past attempt to implement
something that requires a namespace of namespaces and they have never
gotten anywhere.

I see no attempt a due diligence or of actually understanding what
hierarchy already exists in namespaces.

I don't mean to be nasty but I do mean to be clear.  Without a
compelling new idea in this space I see no hope of an implementation.

What they are attempting to do makes it impossible to migrate a set of
process that uses this feature from one machine to another.  AKA this
would be a breaking change and a regression if merged.

The breaking and regression are caused by assigning names to namespaces
without putting those names into a namespace of their own.   That
appears fundamental to the concept not to the implementation.

Since the concept if merged would cause a regression it qualifies for
a nack.

We can explore what problems they are trying to solve with this and
explore other ways to solve those problems.  All I saw was a comment
about monitoring tools and wanting a global view.  I did not see
any comments about dealing with all of the reasons why a global view
tends to be a bad idea.

I should have added that we have to some extent a way to walk through
namespaces using ioctls on nsfs inodes.

Eric