linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v43 01/15] Linux Random Number Generator

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Message-ID: <5873227.WSGUhziGkc@tauon.chronox.de>
Date:   Tue, 23 Nov 2021 06:38:29 +0100
From:   Stephan Mueller <smueller@...onox.de>
To:     Simo Sorce <simo@...hat.com>, noloader@...il.com
Cc:     Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@...c4.com>, Tso Ted <tytso@....edu>,
        Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@...r.kernel.org>,
        Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>, Nicolai Stange <nstange@...e.de>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
        "Alexander E. Patrakov" <patrakov@...il.com>,
        "Ahmed S. Darwish" <darwish.07@...il.com>,
        Matthew Garrett <mjg59@...f.ucam.org>,
        Vito Caputo <vcaputo@...garu.com>,
        Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@...ger.ca>,
        Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>, Ray Strode <rstrode@...hat.com>,
        William Jon McCann <mccann@....edu>,
        zhangjs <zachary@...shancloud.com>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Florian Weimer <fweimer@...hat.com>,
        Lennart Poettering <mzxreary@...inter.de>,
        Peter Matthias <matthias.peter@....bund.de>,
        Marcelo Henrique Cerri <marcelo.cerri@...onical.com>,
        Neil Horman <nhorman@...hat.com>,
        Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>,
        Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@...ia.fr>,
        Dan Carpenter <dan.carpenter@...cle.com>,
        Andy Lavr <andy.lavr@...il.com>,
        Eric Biggers <ebiggers@...nel.org>,
        Petr Tesarik <ptesarik@...e.cz>,
        John Haxby <john.haxby@...cle.com>,
        Alexander Lobakin <alobakin@...lbox.org>,
        Jirka Hladky <jhladky@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v43 01/15] Linux Random Number Generator

Am Montag, 22. November 2021, 22:06:55 CET schrieb Jeffrey Walton:

Hi Jeffrey,

> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 10:10 AM Simo Sorce <simo@...hat.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2021-11-22 at 07:55 +0100, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 07:42:02AM +0100, Stephan Mueller wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > I will leave the representatives from the distros to chime in and
> > > > point to
> > > > these patches.
> > > 
> > > Then why not work with the distros to get these changes merged into the
> > > kernel tree?  They know that keeping things out-of-the-tree costs them
> > > time and money, so why are they keeping them there?
> > 
> > I can speak for my distro.
> > We have not proposed them because they are hacks, we know they are
> > hacks, and we know they are not the long term solution.
> > Yet we have no better way (in our products, today) so far to deal with
> > these issues because what is needed is an effort like LRNG (does not
> > have to be this specific implementation), because hacks will not cut it
> > in the long term.
> 
> Kernel support for FIPS validated crypto would be very useful, IMHO.
> 
> Currently most folks I know and consult with use CentOS because CentOS
> is free and includes the FIPS canister for OpenSSL. Several folks I
> know and consult with don't have a solution because they use Debian
> derivatives, like Ubuntu. They use Ubuntu because Ubuntu offers the
> image processing packages they need out of the box.
> 
> Moving the validated crypto into the kernel would be useful since all
> distros can provide it without the need for one-off patches.
> 
> What I am less clear about.... NIST is only one standard body, and not
> everyone trusts the US. There are other bodies that should probably be
> represented, like KISA. So the big question becomes, how does the
> kernel offer "approved" crypto for different consumers? (where
> "approved" means blessed by some agency like NIST or KISA).

IMHO that is where the flexibility of the LRNG comes in. I am currently in 
discussion with the German BSI on their requirements and these requirements 
can be covered by a few extra lines since it only affects a different initial 
seeding of the DRNG.

In any case, the LRNG supports other approaches by:

- select one or more entropy sources (or provide one from external) that are 
considered appropriate

- if needed, adjust the initial seeding operation

- if needed, adjust the crypto primitives that are in use.

Ciao
Stephan
> 
> Jeff


Ciao
Stephan