linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v43 01/15] Linux Random Number Generator

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Message-ID: <CACXcFmmzDrNQijjXmJaBwjXLiST_2LqVONpMO1JG5xvy-ZXhoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Sat, 4 Dec 2021 17:53:41 +0800
From:   Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@...il.com>
To:     Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>
Cc:     Simo Sorce <simo@...hat.com>,
        "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@...c4.com>,
        Stephan Müller <smueller@...onox.de>,
        Tso Ted <tytso@....edu>,
        Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@...r.kernel.org>,
        Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>, Nicolai Stange <nstange@...e.de>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
        "Alexander E. Patrakov" <patrakov@...il.com>,
        "Ahmed S. Darwish" <darwish.07@...il.com>,
        Matthew Garrett <mjg59@...f.ucam.org>,
        Vito Caputo <vcaputo@...garu.com>,
        Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@...ger.ca>,
        Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>, Ray Strode <rstrode@...hat.com>,
        William Jon McCann <mccann@....edu>,
        zhangjs <zachary@...shancloud.com>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Florian Weimer <fweimer@...hat.com>,
        Lennart Poettering <mzxreary@...inter.de>,
        Peter Matthias <matthias.peter@....bund.de>,
        Marcelo Henrique Cerri <marcelo.cerri@...onical.com>,
        Neil Horman <nhorman@...hat.com>,
        Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>,
        Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@...ia.fr>,
        Dan Carpenter <dan.carpenter@...cle.com>,
        Andy Lavr <andy.lavr@...il.com>,
        Eric Biggers <ebiggers@...nel.org>,
        Petr Tesarik <ptesarik@...e.cz>,
        John Haxby <john.haxby@...cle.com>,
        Alexander Lobakin <alobakin@...lbox.org>,
        Jirka Hladky <jhladky@...hat.com>,
        John Kelsey <crypto.jmk@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v43 01/15] Linux Random Number Generator

Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Also, why does any of this have to be in the kernel at all?

The kernel has had random(4) since Ted invented it sometime in
the 90s. There's no question it's a good idea; that's why all the BSDs
& some others have copied it. The only questions here are whether
it could be made FIPS compliant & whether it should be.

> If FIPS requires a deterministic random number generator
> that will not allow entropy to be acquired from hardware
> or external inputs,

It doesn't require that at all; in fact their DRNG design
requires an external source of random bits. However, it
requires that the source be certified & that would be a
problem for us. Intel & others might be able to get their
random number instructions certified and vendors of
crypto or SOC chips might get theirs certified, but the
kernel community could not do that.

I think the kernel's entropy collection routines are good
enough that they could, in principle, be certified, but
that would involve some work & considerable money.

> why does the
> kernel care at all?  Just write a fips_random.so library and get it
> certified and have any userspace code that cares about such a crazy
> thing to use that instead.

That does not solve the problem. The library would
also need a certified source of random inputs, so
to get it certified you'd have to get something else
certified first -- random(4), an instruction or a hardware
rng.