linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v1 0/4] fbtft: Unorphan the driver for maintenance

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Message-ID: <df377b35-8913-a8c6-760b-073f462780cc@suse.de>
Date:   Wed, 26 Jan 2022 16:02:23 +0100
From:   Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@...e.de>
To:     Andy Shevchenko <andy.shevchenko@...il.com>
Cc:     Andy Shevchenko <andy@...nel.org>, linux-fbdev@...r.kernel.org,
        Michael Hennerich <michael.hennerich@...log.com>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        Helge Deller <deller@....de>, linux-staging@...ts.linux.dev,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org,
        Phillip Potter <phil@...lpotter.co.uk>,
        Carlis <zhangxuezhi1@...ong.com>,
        Lee Jones <lee.jones@...aro.org>,
        Heiner Kallweit <hkallweit1@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 0/4] fbtft: Unorphan the driver for maintenance

Hi

Am 26.01.22 um 14:32 schrieb Andy Shevchenko:
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:41:41PM +0100, Thomas Zimmermann wrote:
>> Am 26.01.22 um 11:59 schrieb Helge Deller:
> 
> ...
> 
> 
>> It's always for the same reason: the hw is old and devs have moved on.
> 
> It's pity to have a working system with an old hardware that no one in
> the kernel community gives a shit about because simply they are not in
> the same boat. Try to be on the people's position...

Yes, I do care about old hardware. I made helpers for converting fbdev 
drivers to DRM. I even made the initial commits for those drivers where 
I could find the HW on Ebay. [1] I made sure that every single of them 
at least gets fbcon onto the screen. So interested devs could start 
immediately. Yet, no one ever showed up to convert even a single driver.

As it stands, 90s PCI hardware is currently supported by DRM's simpledrm 
as long as the device has VESA. The performance is at least usable on 
AthlonXP-era computers. Now the owners of these devices at least have a 
chance of using modern graphics userspace.

That userspace is important: graphics drivers don't live in a vacuum. 
There's no point in having one if it requires extra support from all 
other components. And there's more:

  * Occasionally, fbdev gets in the way of DRM. Just this week, we fixed 
a related bug. [2]

  * Fbdev's mmap semantics is the reason why it's hard to do fast in DRM.

  * Maintaining both stacks, DRM and fbdev, adds work to kernel, 
userspace and distro devs.

Therefore, anything we do that keeps fbdev alive is a step backwards and 
a burden on the overall Linux graphics community.

Please excuse my ranting, but fbdev proponents seem to be ignorant to 
all these points. It's apparently all about 'my console is slow'.

Best regards
Thomas

[1] 
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/tzimmermann/linux/-/tree/fbconv-plus-drivers
[2] 
https://lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/16f9e064-99cc-4205-d03e-ae41ed034309@redhat.com/T/#t

> 

-- 
Thomas Zimmermann
Graphics Driver Developer
SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH
Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
(HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg)
Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev

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