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Message-ID: <Yfj2GTH3tHraprl0@unreal>
Date:   Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:58:01 +0200
From:   Leon Romanovsky <leon@...nel.org>
To:     Hisashi T Fujinaka <htodd@...fifty.com>
Cc:     Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>,
        Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@...dia.com>,
        Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>,
        Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@...der.be>,
        David Awogbemila <awogbemila@...gle.com>,
        Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@...aro.org>, rafal@...ecki.pl,
        Horatiu Vultur <horatiu.vultur@...rochip.com>,
        Andy Gospodarek <andy@...yhouse.net>,
        Edwin Peer <edwin.peer@...adcom.com>,
        Wei Liu <wei.liu@...nel.org>,
        Michal Simek <michal.simek@...inx.com>,
        Christophe Leroy <christophe.leroy@...roup.eu>,
        linux-sunxi@...ts.linux.dev, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>,
        l.stelmach@...sung.com, Shay Agroskin <shayagr@...zon.com>,
        Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Jon Mason <jdmason@...zu.us>,
        Shannon Nelson <snelson@...sando.io>,
        Claudiu Beznea <claudiu.beznea@...rochip.com>,
        Alexandre Belloni <alexandre.belloni@...tlin.com>,
        Chris Snook <chris.snook@...il.com>,
        Zhu Yanjun <zyjzyj2000@...il.com>,
        Arthur Kiyanovski <akiyano@...zon.com>,
        Stefan Wahren <stefan.wahren@...e.com>,
        Stephen Hemminger <sthemmin@...rosoft.com>,
        linux-stm32@...md-mailman.stormreply.com,
        Gabriel Somlo <gsomlo@...il.com>,
        Rain River <rain.1986.08.12@...il.com>,
        Martin Habets <habetsm.xilinx@...il.com>,
        Yisen Zhuang <yisen.zhuang@...wei.com>,
        Jose Abreu <Jose.Abreu@...opsys.com>,
        Shai Malin <smalin@...vell.com>,
        Maxime Ripard <mripard@...nel.org>,
        Claudiu Manoil <claudiu.manoil@....com>, drivers@...sando.io,
        Omkar Kulkarni <okulkarni@...vell.com>,
        linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org,
        Vegard Nossum <vegard.nossum@...cle.com>,
        David Arinzon <darinzon@...zon.com>,
        Microchip Linux Driver Support <UNGLinuxDriver@...rochip.com>,
        linux-renesas-soc@...r.kernel.org,
        Maxime Coquelin <mcoquelin.stm32@...il.com>,
        Catherine Sullivan <csully@...gle.com>,
        linux-hyperv@...r.kernel.org, oss-drivers@...igine.com,
        Noam Dagan <ndagan@...zon.com>, Rob Herring <robh@...nel.org>,
        Steen Hegelund <steen.hegelund@...rochip.com>,
        Dexuan Cui <decui@...rosoft.com>,
        Jernej Skrabec <jernej.skrabec@...il.com>,
        Chen-Yu Tsai <wens@...e.org>, Joel Stanley <joel@....id.au>,
        Simon Horman <simon.horman@...igine.com>,
        Asmaa Mnebhi <asmaa@...dia.com>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        Haiyang Zhang <haiyangz@...rosoft.com>,
        Saeed Mahameed <saeed@...nel.org>,
        Liming Sun <limings@...dia.com>,
        Michael Chan <michael.chan@...adcom.com>,
        Salil Mehta <salil.mehta@...wei.com>,
        Sergey Shtylyov <s.shtylyov@....ru>,
        Oleksij Rempel <linux@...pel-privat.de>,
        Edward Cree <ecree.xilinx@...il.com>,
        Saeed Bishara <saeedb@...zon.com>,
        Mark Einon <mark.einon@...il.com>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Vignesh Raghavendra <vigneshr@...com>,
        Vladimir Oltean <vladimir.oltean@....com>,
        Alexandre Torgue <alexandre.torgue@...s.st.com>,
        Slark Xiao <slark_xiao@....com>, Gary Guo <gary@...yguo.net>,
        Gerhard Engleder <gerhard@...leder-embedded.com>,
        Jeroen de Borst <jeroendb@...gle.com>,
        Lino Sanfilippo <LinoSanfilippo@....de>,
        intel-wired-lan@...ts.osuosl.org, Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>,
        Prabhakar Kushwaha <pkushwaha@...vell.com>,
        Hans Ulli Kroll <ulli.kroll@...glemail.com>,
        Richard Cochran <richardcochran@...il.com>,
        Marcin Wojtas <mw@...ihalf.com>,
        David Thompson <davthompson@...dia.com>,
        Lars Povlsen <lars.povlsen@...rochip.com>,
        netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        Nicolas Ferre <nicolas.ferre@...rochip.com>,
        Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>
Subject: Re: [Intel-wired-lan] [PATCH net-next] net: kbuild: Don't default
 net vendor configs to y

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:55:14AM -0800, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, Florian Fainelli wrote:
> 
> > On 1/31/2022 10:35 AM, Saeed Mahameed wrote:
> > > On 31 Jan 19:30, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:59 PM Stephen Hemminger
> > > > <stephen@...workplumber.org> wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 09:24:50 -0800
> > > > > Saeed Mahameed <saeed@...nel.org> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > From: Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@...dia.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NET_VENDOR_XYZ were defaulted to 'y' for no technical reason.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since all drivers belonging to a vendor are supposed to default to 'n',
> > > > > > defaulting all vendors to 'n' shouldn't be an issue, and aligns well
> > > > > > with the 'no new drivers' by default mentality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Signed-off-by: Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@...dia.com>
> > > > > 
> > > > > This was done back when vendors were introduced in the
> > > > > network drivers tree.
> > > > > The default of Y allowed older configurations to just work.
> > > > 
> > > > And changing the defaults means all defconfigs must be updated first,
> > > > else the user's configs will end up without drivers needed.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > As I understand correctly, at least for most common net drivers,
> > > having NET_VENDOR_XYZ=y doesn't actually build anything, we have
> > > flags per
> > > module for each vendor and those are defaulted to N.
> > 
> > Right, but once you start hiding NET_VENDOR_DRIVER_XYZ under a
> > NET_VENDOR_XYZ Kconfig symbol dependency, if NET_VENDOR_XYZ is not set
> > to Y, then you have no way to select NET_VENDOR_DRIVER_XYZ and so your
> > old defconfig breaks.
> > 
> > > 
> > > > > So there was a reason, not sure if it matters anymore.
> > > > > But it seems like useless repainting to change it now.
> > > > 
> > > > It might make sense to tune some of the defaults (i.e. change to
> > > > "default y if ARCH_*") for drivers with clear platform dependencies.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > either set hard default to 'n' or just keep it as is, anything else is just
> > > more confusion.
> > 
> > Maybe the rule should go like this: any new driver vendor defaults to n,
> > and existing ones remain set to y, until we deprecate doing that and
> > switching them all off to n by 5.18?
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, but isn't it a regression if things quit working
> even if it's just a configuration change?

No, kernel configs never were declared as ABI as "regular" users are not
supposed to touch it. They use something provided by the distro.

> 
> From a user perspective I like having everything turned on initially so
> it just works. Pruning things down is a lot easier than trying to figure
> out what all to turn on. Especially in graphics.

I have completely opposite view here and prefer to have minimal config
for my CI, and for my working machines as well. 

Thanks

> 
> -- 
> Hisashi T Fujinaka - htodd@...fifty.com

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