Date:   Wed, 23 Feb 2022 14:18:24 -0700
From:   Yu Zhao <yuzhao@...gle.com>
To:     Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>,
        Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org>
Cc:     Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Mel Gorman <mgorman@...e.de>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@...nel.org>,
        Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>,
        Aneesh Kumar <aneesh.kumar@...ux.ibm.com>,
        Barry Song <21cnbao@...il.com>,
        Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        Hillf Danton <hdanton@...a.com>, Jens Axboe <axboe@...nel.dk>,
        Jesse Barnes <jsbarnes@...gle.com>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>,
        Michael Larabel <Michael@...haellarabel.com>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org>,
        Rik van Riel <riel@...riel.com>,
        Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@...e.cz>,
        Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>,
        Ying Huang <ying.huang@...el.com>,
        Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org>,
        "open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux-MM <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        Kernel Page Reclaim v2 <page-reclaim@...gle.com>,
        "the arch/x86 maintainers" <x86@...nel.org>,
        Brian Geffon <bgeffon@...gle.com>,
        Jan Alexander Steffens <heftig@...hlinux.org>,
        Oleksandr Natalenko <oleksandr@...alenko.name>,
        Steven Barrett <steven@...uorix.net>,
        Suleiman Souhlal <suleiman@...gle.com>,
        Daniel Byrne <djbyrne@....edu>,
        Donald Carr <d@...os-reins.com>,
        Holger Hoffstätte <holger@...lied-asynchrony.com>,
        Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel@...dex.ru>,
        Shuang Zhai <szhai2@...rochester.edu>,
        Sofia Trinh <sofia.trinh@....works>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 04/12] mm: multigenerational LRU: groundwork

.
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 1:14 AM Yu Zhao <yuzhao@...gle.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 04:53:56PM -0500, Johannes Weiner wrote:
> > Hi Yu,
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 02:43:05AM -0700, Yu Zhao wrote:
> > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:41:57PM -0500, Johannes Weiner wrote:
> > > > > +static inline bool lru_gen_is_active(struct lruvec *lruvec, int gen)
> > > > > +{
> > > > > +       unsigned long max_seq = lruvec->lrugen.max_seq;
> > > > > +
> > > > > +       VM_BUG_ON(gen >= MAX_NR_GENS);
> > > > > +
> > > > > +       /* see the comment on MIN_NR_GENS */
> > > > > +       return gen == lru_gen_from_seq(max_seq) || gen == lru_gen_from_seq(max_seq - 1);
> > > > > +}
> > > >
> > > > I'm still reading the series, so correct me if I'm wrong: the "active"
> > > > set is split into two generations for the sole purpose of the
> > > > second-chance policy for fresh faults, right?
> > >
> > > To be precise, the active/inactive notion on top of generations is
> > > just for ABI compatibility, e.g., the counters in /proc/vmstat.
> > > Otherwise, this function wouldn't be needed.
> >
> > Ah! would you mind adding this as a comment to the function?
>
> Will do.
>
> > But AFAICS there is the lru_gen_del_folio() callsite that maps it to
> > the PG_active flag - which in turn gets used by add_folio() to place
> > the thing back on the max_seq generation. So I suppose there is a
> > secondary purpose of the function for remembering the page's rough age
> > for non-reclaim isolation.>
>
> Yes, e.g., migration.
>
> > It would be good to capture that as well in a comment on the function.
>
> Will do.
>
> > > > > +static inline void lru_gen_update_size(struct lruvec *lruvec, enum lru_list lru,
> > > > > +                                      int zone, long delta)
> > > > > +{
> > > > > +       struct pglist_data *pgdat = lruvec_pgdat(lruvec);
> > > > > +
> > > > > +       lockdep_assert_held(&lruvec->lru_lock);
> > > > > +       WARN_ON_ONCE(delta != (int)delta);
> > > > > +
> > > > > +       __mod_lruvec_state(lruvec, NR_LRU_BASE + lru, delta);
> > > > > +       __mod_zone_page_state(&pgdat->node_zones[zone], NR_ZONE_LRU_BASE + lru, delta);
> > > > > +}
> > > >
> > > > This is a duplicate of update_lru_size(), please use that instead.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah technically you don't need the mem_cgroup_update_lru_size() but
> > > > that's not worth sweating over, better to keep it simple.
> > >
> > > I agree we don't need the mem_cgroup_update_lru_size() -- let me spell
> > > out why:
> > >   this function is not needed here because it updates the counters used
> > >   only by the active/inactive lru code, i.e., get_scan_count().
> > >
> > > However, we can't reuse update_lru_size() because MGLRU can trip the
> > > WARN_ONCE() in mem_cgroup_update_lru_size().
> > >
> > > Unlike lru_zone_size[], lrugen->nr_pages[] is eventually consistent.
> > > To move a page to a different generation, the gen counter in page->flags
> > > is updated first, which doesn't require the LRU lock. The second step,
> > > i.e., the update of lrugen->nr_pages[], requires the LRU lock, and it
> > > usually isn't done immediately due to batching. Meanwhile, if this page
> > > is, for example, isolated, nr_pages[] becomes temporarily unbalanced.
> > > And this trips the WARN_ONCE().
> >
> > Good insight.
> >
> > But in that case, I'd still think it's better to use update_lru_size()
> > and gate the memcg update on lrugen-enabled, with a short comment
> > saying that lrugen has its own per-cgroup counts already. It's just a
> > bit too error prone to duplicate the stat updates.
> >
> > Even better would be:
> >
> > static __always_inline
> > void lruvec_add_folio(struct lruvec *lruvec, struct folio *folio)
> > {
> >       enum lru_list lru = folio_lru_list(folio);
> >
> >       update_lru_size(lruvec, lru, folio_zonenum(folio),
> >                       folio_nr_pages(folio));
> >       if (lrugen_enabled(lruvec))
> >               lrugen_add_folio(lruvec, folio);
> >       else
> >               list_add(&folio->lru, &lruvec->lists[lru]);
> > }
> >
> > But it does mean you'd have to handle unevictable pages. I'm reviewing
> > from the position that mglru is going to supplant the existing reclaim
> > algorithm in the long term, though, so being more comprehensive and
> > eliminating special cases where possible is all-positive, IMO.
> >
> > Up to you. I'd only insist on reusing update_lru_size() at least.
>
> Will do.
>
> > > > > +static inline bool lru_gen_add_folio(struct lruvec *lruvec, struct folio *folio, bool reclaiming)
> > > > > +{
> > > > > +       int gen;
> > > > > +       unsigned long old_flags, new_flags;
> > > > > +       int type = folio_is_file_lru(folio);
> > > > > +       int zone = folio_zonenum(folio);
> > > > > +       struct lru_gen_struct *lrugen = &lruvec->lrugen;
> > > > > +
> > > > > +       if (folio_test_unevictable(folio) || !lrugen->enabled)
> > > > > +               return false;
> > > >
> > > > These two checks should be in the callsite and the function should
> > > > return void. Otherwise you can't understand the callsite without
> > > > drilling down into lrugen code, even if lrugen is disabled.
> > >
> > > I agree it's a bit of nuisance this way. The alternative is we'd need
> > > ifdef or another helper at the call sites because lrugen->enabled is
> > > specific to lrugen.
> >
> > Coming from memcg, my experience has been that when you have a compile
> > time-optional MM extension like this, you'll sooner or later need a
> > config-independent helper to gate callbacks in generic code. So I
> > think it's a good idea to add one now.
> >
> > One of these?
> >
> > lruvec_on_lrugen()
>
> SGTM.
>
> Personally I'd reuse lru_gen_enabled(), by passing NULL/lruvec. But
> my guess is you wouldn't like it.
>
> > lruvec_using_lrugen()
> > lruvec_lrugen_enabled()
> >
> > lruvec_has_generations() :-)
> >
> > > > On that note, I think #1 is reintroducing a problem we have fixed
> > > > before, which is trashing the workingset with a flood of use-once
> > > > mmapped pages. It's the classic scenario where LFU beats LRU.
> > > >
> > > > Mapped streaming IO isn't very common, but it does happen. See these
> > > > commits:
> > > >
> > > > dfc8d636cdb95f7b792d5ba8c9f3b295809c125d
> > > > 31c0569c3b0b6cc8a867ac6665ca081553f7984c
> > > > 645747462435d84c6c6a64269ed49cc3015f753d
> > > >
> > > > From the changelog:
> > > >
> > > >     The used-once mapped file page detection patchset.
> > > >
> > > >     It is meant to help workloads with large amounts of shortly used file
> > > >     mappings, like rtorrent hashing a file or git when dealing with loose
> > > >     objects (git gc on a bigger site?).
> > > >
> > > >     Right now, the VM activates referenced mapped file pages on first
> > > >     encounter on the inactive list and it takes a full memory cycle to
> > > >     reclaim them again.  When those pages dominate memory, the system
> > > >     no longer has a meaningful notion of 'working set' and is required
> > > >     to give up the active list to make reclaim progress.  Obviously,
> > > >     this results in rather bad scanning latencies and the wrong pages
> > > >     being reclaimed.
> > > >
> > > >     This patch makes the VM be more careful about activating mapped file
> > > >     pages in the first place.  The minimum granted lifetime without
> > > >     another memory access becomes an inactive list cycle instead of the
> > > >     full memory cycle, which is more natural given the mentioned loads.
> > > >
> > > > Translating this to multigen, it seems fresh faults should really
> > > > start on the second oldest rather than on the youngest generation, to
> > > > get a second chance but without jeopardizing the workingset if they
> > > > don't take it.
> > >
> > > This is a good point, and I had worked on a similar idea but failed
> > > to measure its benefits. In addition to placing mmapped file pages in
> > > older generations, I also tried placing refaulted anon pages in older
> > > generations. My conclusion was that the initial LRU positions of NFU
> > > pages are not a bottleneck for workloads I've tested. The efficiency
> > > of testing/clearing the accessed bit is.
> >
> > The concern isn't the scan overhead, but jankiness from the workingset
> > being flooded out by streaming IO.
>
> Yes, MGLRU uses a different approach to solve this problem, and for
> its approach, the scan overhead is the concern.
>
> MGLRU detects (defines) the working set by scanning the entire memory
> for each generation, and it counters the flooding by accelerating the
> creation of generations. IOW, all mapped pages have an equal chance to
> get scanned, no matter which generation they are in. This is a design
> difference compared with the active/inactive LRU, which tries to scans
> the active/inactive lists less/more frequently.
>
> > The concrete usecase at the time was a torrent client hashing a
> > downloaded file and thereby kicking out the desktop environment, which
> > caused jankiness. The hashing didn't benefit from caching - the file
> > wouldn't have fit into RAM anyway - so this was pointless to boot.
> >
> > Essentially, the tradeoff is this:
> >
> > 1) If you treat new pages as hot, you accelerate workingset
> > transitions, but on the flipside you risk unnecessary refaults in
> > running applications when those new pages are one-off.
> >
> > 2) If you take new pages with a grain of salt, you protect existing
> > applications better from one-off floods, but risk refaults in NEW
> > application while they're trying to start up.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > There are two arguments for why 2) is preferable:
> >
> > 1) Users are tolerant of cache misses when applications first launch,
> >    much less so after they've been running for hours.
>
> Our CUJs (Critical User Journeys) respectfully disagree :)
>
> They are built on the observation that once users have moved onto
> another tab/app, they are more likely to stay with the new tab/app
> rather than go back to the old ones. Speaking for myself, this is
> generally the case.
>
> > 2) Workingset transitions (and associated jankiness) are bounded by
> >    the amount of RAM you need to repopulate. But streaming IO is
> >    bounded by storage, and datasets are routinely several times the
> >    amount of RAM. Uncacheable sets in excess of RAM can produce an
> >    infinite stream of "new" references; not protecting the workingset
> >    from that means longer or even sustained jankiness.
>
> I'd argue the opposite -- we shouldn't risk refaulting fresh hot pages
> just to accommodate this concrete yet minor use case, especially
> considering torrent has been given the means (MADV_SEQUENTIAL) to help
> itself.
>
> I appreciate all your points here. The bottom line is we agree this is
> a trade off. For what disagree about, we could be both right -- it
> comes down to what workloads we care about *more*.
>
> To move forward, I propose we look at it from a non-technical POV:
> would we want to offer users an alternative trade off so that they can
> have greater flexibility?
>
> > > And some applications are smart enough to leverage MADV_SEQUENTIAL.
> > > In this case, MGLRU does place mmapped file pages in the oldest
> > > generation.
> >
> > Yes, it makes sense to optimize when MADV_SEQUENTIAL is requested. But
> > that hint isn't reliably there, so it matters that we don't do poorly
> > when it's missing.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > > I have an oversimplified script that uses memcached to mimic a
> > > non-streaming workload and fio a (mmapped) streaming workload:
> >
> > Looking at the paramters and observed behavior, let me say up front
> > that this looks like a useful benchmark, but doesn't capture the
> > scenario I was talking about above.
> >
> > For one, the presence of swapping in both kernels suggests that the
> > "streaming IO" component actually has repeat access that could benefit
> > from caching. Second, I would expect memcache is accessing its memory
> > frequently and consistently, and so could withstand workingset
> > challenges from streaming IO better than, say, a desktop environment.
>
> The fio workload is a real streaming workload, but the memcached
> workload might have been too large to be a typical desktop workload.
>
> More below.
>
> > More on that below.
> >
> > >   1. With MADV_SEQUENTIAL, the non-streaming workload is about 5 times
> > >      faster when using MGLRU. Somehow the baseline (rc3) swapped a lot.
> > >      (It shouldn't, and I haven't figured out why.)
> >
> > Baseline swaps when there are cache refaults. This is regardless of
> > the hint: you may say you're accessing these pages sequentially, but
> > the refaults say you're reusing them, with a frequency that suggests
> > they might be cacheable. So it tries to cache them.
> >
> > I'd be curious if that results in fio being faster, or whether it's
> > all just pointless thrashing. Can you share the fio results too?
>
> More below.
>
> > We could patch baseline to prioritize MADV_SEQUENTIAL more, but...
> >
> > >   2. Without MADV_SEQUENTIAL, the non-streaming workload is about 1
> > >      time faster when using MGLRU. Both MGLRU and the baseline swapped
> > >      a lot.
> >
> > ...in practice I think this scenario will matter to a lot more users.
>
> I strongly feel we should prioritize what's advertised on a man page
> over an unspecified (performance) behavior.
>
> > I would again be interested in the fio results.
> >
> > >            MADV_SEQUENTIAL    non-streaming ops/sec (memcached)
> > >   rc3      yes                 292k
> > >   rc3      no                  203k
> > >   rc3+v7   yes                1967k
> > >   rc3+v7   no                  436k

Appending a few notes on the baseline results:
1. Apparently FADV_DONTNEED rejects mmaped pages -- I found no reasons
from the man page or the original commit why it should. I propose we
remove the page_mapped() check in lru_deactivate_file_fn(). Adding
Minchan to see how he thinks about this.
2. For MADV_SEQUENTIAL, I made workingset_refault() check (VM_SEQ_READ
| VM_RAND_READ) and return if they are set, and the performance got a
lot better (x3).
3. In page_referenced_one(), I think we should also exclude
VM_RAND_READ in addition to VM_SEQ_READ.

> > >   cat mmap.sh
> > >   modprobe brd rd_nr=2 rd_size=56623104
> > >
> > >   mkswap /dev/ram0
> > >   swapon /dev/ram0
> > >
> > >   mkfs.ext4 /dev/ram1
> > >   mount -t ext4 /dev/ram1 /mnt
> > >
> > >   memtier_benchmark -S /var/run/memcached/memcached.sock -P memcache_binary \
> > >     -n allkeys --key-minimum=1 --key-maximum=50000000 --key-pattern=P:P -c 1 \
> > >     -t 36 --ratio 1:0 --pipeline 8 -d 2000
> > >
> > >   # streaming workload: --fadvise_hint=0 disables MADV_SEQUENTIAL
> > >   fio -name=mglru --numjobs=12 --directory=/mnt --size=4224m --buffered=1 \
> > >     --ioengine=mmap --iodepth=128 --iodepth_batch_submit=32 \
> > >     --iodepth_batch_complete=32 --rw=read --time_based --ramp_time=10m \
> > >     --runtime=180m --group_reporting &
> >
> > As per above, I think this would be closer to a cacheable workingset
> > than a streaming IO pattern. It depends on total RAM of course, but
> > size=4G and time_based should loop around pretty quickly.
>
> The file size here shouldn't matter since fio is smart enough to
> invalidate page cache before it rewinds (for sequential access):
>
> https://fio.readthedocs.io/en/latest/fio_doc.html#cmdoption-arg-invalidate
> https://github.com/axboe/fio/blob/master/filesetup.c#L602
>
> I think the problem might have been the memory size for memcached was
> too large (100GB) to be all hot (limited by memory bandwidth).
>
> > Would you mind rerunning with files larger than RAM, to avoid repeat
> > accesses (or at least only repeat with large distances)?
>
> Retested with the same free memory (120GB) for 40GB memcached and 200GB
> fio.
>
>            MADV_SEQUENTIAL  FADV_DONTNEED  memcached  fio
>   rc4      no               yes            4716k      232k
>   rc4+v7   no               yes            4307k      265k
>   delta                                    -9%        +14%
>
> MGLRU lost with memcached but won with fio for the same reason: it
> doesn't have any heuristics to detect the streaming characteristic
> (and therefore lost with memcached) but relies on faster scanning
> (and therefore won with fio) to keep the working set in memory.
>
> The baseline didn't swap this time (MGLRU did slightly), but it lost
> with fio because it had to walk the rmap for each page in the entire
> 200GB VMA, at least once, even for this streaming workload.
>
> This reflects the design difference I mentioned earlier.
>
>   cat test.sh
>   modprobe brd rd_nr=1 rd_size=268435456
>
>   mkfs.ext4 /dev/ram0
>   mount -t ext4 /dev/ram0 /mnt
>
>   fallocate -l 40g /mnt/swapfile
>   mkswap /mnt/swapfile
>   swapon /mnt/swapfile
>
>   fio -name=mglru --numjobs=1 --directory=/mnt --size=204800m \
>     --buffered=1 --ioengine=mmap --fadvise_hint=0 --iodepth=128 \
>     --iodepth_batch_submit=32 --iodepth_batch_complete=32 \
>     --rw=read --time_based --ramp_time=10m --runtime=180m \
>     --group_reporting &
>   pid=$!
>
>   sleep 600
>
>   # load objects
>   memtier_benchmark -S /var/run/memcached/memcached.sock \
>     -P memcache_binary -n allkeys --key-minimum=1 \
>     --key-maximum=20000000 --key-pattern=P:P -c 1 -t 36 \
>     --ratio 1:0 --pipeline 8 -d 2000
>   # read objects
>   memtier_benchmark -S /var/run/memcached/memcached.sock \
>     -P memcache_binary -n allkeys --key-minimum=1 \
>     --key-maximum=20000000 --key-pattern=R:R -c 1 -t 36 \
>     --ratio 0:1 --pipeline 8 --randomize --distinct-client-seed
>
>   kill -INT $pid
>
> > Depending on how hot memcache runs, it may or may not be able to hold
> > onto its workingset.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > Testing interactivity is notoriously hard, but
> > using a smaller, intermittent workload is probably more representative
> > of overall responsiveness. Let fio ramp until memory is full, then do
> > perf stat -r 10 /bin/sh -c 'git shortlog v5.0.. >/dev/null; sleep 1'
>
> I'll also check with the downstream maintainers to see if they have
> heard any complaints about streaming workloads negatively impacting
> user experience.
>
> > I'll try to reproduce this again too. Back then, that workload gave me
> > a very janky desktop experience, and the patch very obvious relief.
>
> SGTM.
>
> > > > > @@ -113,6 +298,9 @@ void lruvec_add_folio_tail(struct lruvec *lruvec, struct folio *folio)
> > > > >  {
> > > > >         enum lru_list lru = folio_lru_list(folio);
> > > > >
> > > > > +       if (lru_gen_add_folio(lruvec, folio, true))
> > > > > +               return;
> > > > > +
> > > >
> > > > bool parameters are notoriously hard to follow in the callsite. Can
> > > > you please add lru_gen_add_folio_tail() instead and have them use a
> > > > common helper?
> > >
> > > I'm not sure -- there are several places like this one. My question is
> > > whether we want to do it throughout this patchset. We'd end up with
> > > many helpers and duplicate code. E.g., in this file alone, we have two
> > > functions taking bool parameters:
> > >   lru_gen_add_folio(..., bool reclaiming)
> > >   lru_gen_del_folio(..., bool reclaiming)
> > >
> > > I can't say they are very readable; at least they are very compact
> > > right now. My concern is that we might loose the latter without having
> > > enough of the former.
> > >
> > > Perhaps this is something that we could revisit after you've finished
> > > reviewing the entire patchset?
> >
> > Sure, fair enough.
> >
> > > > > +void lru_gen_init_state(struct mem_cgroup *memcg, struct lruvec *lruvec);
> > > >
> > > > "state" is what we usually init :) How about lrugen_init_lruvec()?
> > >
> > > Same story as "file", lol -- this used to be lru_gen_init_lruvec():
> > > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/20210413065633.2782273-9-yuzhao@google.com/
> > >
> > > Naming is hard. Hopefully we can finalize it this time.
> >
> > Was that internal feedback? The revisions show this function went
> > through several names, but I don't see reviews requesting those. If
> > they weren't public I'm gonna pretend they didn't happen ;-)
>
> Indeed. I lost track.
>
> > > > You can drop the memcg parameter and use lruvec_memcg().
> > >
> > > lruvec_memcg() isn't available yet when pgdat_init_internals() calls
> > > this function because mem_cgroup_disabled() is initialized afterward.
> >
> > Good catch. That'll container_of() into garbage. However, we have to
> > assume that somebody's going to try that simplification again, so we
> > should set up the code now to prevent issues.
> >
> > cgroup_disable parsing is self-contained, so we can pull it ahead in
> > the init sequence. How about this?
> >
> > diff --git a/kernel/cgroup/cgroup.c b/kernel/cgroup/cgroup.c
> > index 9d05c3ca2d5e..b544d768edc8 100644
> > --- a/kernel/cgroup/cgroup.c
> > +++ b/kernel/cgroup/cgroup.c
> > @@ -6464,9 +6464,9 @@ static int __init cgroup_disable(char *str)
> >                       break;
> >               }
> >       }
> > -     return 1;
> > +     return 0;
> >  }
> > -__setup("cgroup_disable=", cgroup_disable);
> > +early_param("cgroup_disable", cgroup_disable);
>
> I think early_param() is still after pgdat_init_internals(), no?
>
> Thanks!

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