Message-ID: <eab9fdb0-11ef-4556-bdd7-f021cc5f10b7@leemhuis.info>
Date:   Wed, 25 May 2022 09:45:59 +0200
From:   Thorsten Leemhuis <regressions@...mhuis.info>
To:     Chuck Zmudzinski <brchuckz@...scape.net>,
        Jan Beulich <jbeulich@...e.com>, regressions@...ts.linux.dev,
        stable@...r.kernel.org
Cc:     Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Jani Nikula <jani.nikula@...ux.intel.com>,
        Joonas Lahtinen <joonas.lahtinen@...ux.intel.com>,
        Rodrigo Vivi <rodrigo.vivi@...el.com>,
        Tvrtko Ursulin <tvrtko.ursulin@...ux.intel.com>,
        David Airlie <airlied@...ux.ie>,
        Daniel Vetter <daniel@...ll.ch>,
        xen-devel@...ts.xenproject.org, x86@...nel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, intel-gfx@...ts.freedesktop.org,
        dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org, Juergen Gross <jgross@...e.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] x86/pat: add functions to query specific cache mode
 availability



On 24.05.22 20:32, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 5/21/22 6:47 AM, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
>> On 20.05.22 16:48, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>> On 5/20/2022 10:06 AM, Jan Beulich wrote:
>>>> On 20.05.2022 15:33, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>>>> On 5/20/2022 5:41 AM, Jan Beulich wrote:
>>>>>> On 20.05.2022 10:30, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 2:59 AM, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2022 2:05 AM, Jan Beulich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 20.05.2022 06:43, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/4/22 5:14 AM, Juergen Gross wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 04.05.22 10:31, Jan Beulich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03.05.2022 15:22, Juergen Gross wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ... these uses there are several more. You say nothing on why
>>>>>>>>>>>> those want
>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving unaltered. When preparing my earlier patch I did
>>>>>>>>>>>> inspect them
>>>>>>>>>>>> and came to the conclusion that these all would also better
>>>>>>>>>>>> observe the
>>>>>>>>>>>> adjusted behavior (or else I couldn't have left pat_enabled()
>>>>>>>>>>>> as the
>>>>>>>>>>>> only predicate). In fact, as said in the description of my
>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier
>>>>>>>>>>>> patch, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> my debugging I did find the use in i915_gem_object_pin_map()
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> problematic one, which you leave alone.
>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, I missed that one, sorry.
>>>>>>>>>> That is why your patch would not fix my Haswell unless
>>>>>>>>>> it also touches i915_gem_object_pin_map() in
>>>>>>>>>> drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gem/i915_gem_pages.c
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to be rather defensive in my changes, but I agree at
>>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> case in arch_phys_wc_add() might want to be changed, too.
>>>>>>>>>> I think your approach needs to be more aggressive so it will fix
>>>>>>>>>> all the known false negatives introduced by bdd8b6c98239
>>>>>>>>>> such as the one in i915_gem_object_pin_map().
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I looked at Jan's approach and I think it would fix the issue
>>>>>>>>>> with my Haswell as long as I don't use the nopat option. I
>>>>>>>>>> really don't have a strong opinion on that question, but I
>>>>>>>>>> think the nopat option as a Linux kernel option, as opposed
>>>>>>>>>> to a hypervisor option, should only affect the kernel, and
>>>>>>>>>> if the hypervisor provides the pat feature, then the kernel
>>>>>>>>>> should not override that,
>>>>>>>>> Hmm, why would the kernel not be allowed to override that? Such
>>>>>>>>> an override would affect only the single domain where the
>>>>>>>>> kernel runs; other domains could take their own decisions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, for the sake of completeness: "nopat" used when running on
>>>>>>>>> bare metal has the same bad effect on system boot, so there
>>>>>>>>> pretty clearly is an error cleanup issue in the i915 driver. But
>>>>>>>>> that's orthogonal, and I expect the maintainers may not even care
>>>>>>>>> (but tell us "don't do that then").
>>>>>>> Actually I just did a test with the last official Debian kernel
>>>>>>> build of Linux 5.16, that is, a kernel before bdd8b6c98239 was
>>>>>>> applied. In fact, the nopat option does *not* break the i915 driver
>>>>>>> in 5.16. That is, with the nopat option, the i915 driver loads
>>>>>>> normally on both the bare metal and on the Xen hypervisor.
>>>>>>> That means your presumption (and the presumption of
>>>>>>> the author of bdd8b6c98239) that the "nopat" option was
>>>>>>> being observed by the i915 driver is incorrect. Setting "nopat"
>>>>>>> had no effect on my system with Linux 5.16. So after doing these
>>>>>>> tests, I am against the aggressive approach of breaking the i915
>>>>>>> driver with the "nopat" option because prior to bdd8b6c98239,
>>>>>>> nopat did not break the i915 driver. Why break it now?
>>>>>> Because that's, in my understanding, is the purpose of "nopat"
>>>>>> (not breaking the driver of course - that's a driver bug -, but
>>>>>> having an effect on the driver).
>>>>> I wouldn't call it a driver bug, but an incorrect configuration of the
>>>>> kernel by the user.  I presume X86_FEATURE_PAT is required by the
>>>>> i915 driver
>>>> The driver ought to work fine without PAT (and hence without being
>>>> able to make WC mappings). It would use UC instead and be slow, but
>>>> it ought to work.
>>>>
>>>>> and therefore the driver should refuse to disable
>>>>> it if the user requests to disable it and instead warn the user that
>>>>> the driver did not disable the feature, contrary to what the user
>>>>> requested with the nopat option.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any case, my test did not verify that when nopat is set in Linux
>>>>> 5.16,
>>>>> the thread takes the same code path as when nopat is not set,
>>>>> so I am not totally sure that the reason nopat does not break the
>>>>> i915 driver in 5.16 is that static_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_PAT)
>>>>> returns true even when nopat is set. I could test it with a custom
>>>>> log message in 5.16 if that is necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying it was wrong for static_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_PAT)
>>>>> to return true in 5.16 when the user requests nopat?
>>>> No, I'm not saying that. It was wrong for this construct to be used
>>>> in the driver, which was fixed for 5.17 (and which had caused the
>>>> regression I did observe, leading to the patch as a hopefully least
>>>> bad option).
>>>>
>>>>> I think that is
>>>>> just permitting a bad configuration to break the driver that a
>>>>> well-written operating system should not allow. The i915 driver
>>>>> was, in my opinion, correctly ignoring the nopat option in 5.16
>>>>> because that option is not compatible with the hardware the
>>>>> i915 driver is trying to initialize and setup at boot time. At least
>>>>> that is my understanding now, but I will need to test it on 5.16
>>>>> to be sure I understand it correctly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, AFAICT, your patch would break the driver when the nopat
>>>>> option is set and only fix the regression introduced by bdd8b6c98239
>>>>> when nopat is not set on my box, so your patch would
>>>>> introduce a regression relative to Linux 5.16 and earlier for the
>>>>> case when nopat is set on my box. I think your point would
>>>>> be that it is not a regression if it is an incorrect user
>>>>> configuration.
>>>> Again no - my view is that there's a separate, pre-existing issue
>>>> in the driver which was uncovered by the change. This may be a
>>>> perceived regression, but is imo different from a real one.
>> Sorry, for you maybe, but I'm pretty sure for Linus it's not when it
>> comes to the "no regressions rule". Just took a quick look at quotes
>> from Linus
>> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/handling-regressions.html
>> and found this statement from Linus to back this up:
>>
>> ```
>> One _particularly_ last-minute revert is the top-most commit (ignoring
>> the version change itself) done just before the release, and while
>> it's very annoying, it's perhaps also instructive.
>>
>> What's instructive about it is that I reverted a commit that wasn't
>> actually buggy. In fact, it was doing exactly what it set out to do,
>> and did it very well. In fact it did it _so_ well that the much
>> improved IO patterns it caused then ended up revealing a user-visible
>> regression due to a real bug in a completely unrelated area.
>> ```
>>
>> He said that here:
>> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/handling-regressions.html
>>
>> The situation is of course different here, but similar enough.
>>
>>> Since it is a regression, I think for now bdd8b6c98239 should
>>> be reverted and the fix backported to Linux 5.17 stable until
>>> the underlying memory subsystem can provide the i915 driver
>>> with an updated test for the PAT feature that also meets the
>>> requirements of the author of bdd8b6c98239 without breaking
>>> the i915 driver.
>> I'm not a developer and I'm don't known the details of this thread and
>> the backstory of the regression, but it sounds like that's the approach
>> that is needed here until someone comes up with a fix for the regression
>> exposed by bdd8b6c98239.
>>
>> But if I'm wrong, please tell me.
> 
> You are mostly right, I think. Reverting bdd8b6c98239 fixes
> it. There is another way to fix it, though.

Yeah, I'm aware of it. But it seems...

> The patch proposed
> by Jan Beulich also fixes the regression on my system, so as
> the person reporting this is a regression, I would also be satisfied
> with Jan's patch instead of reverting bdd8b6c98239 as a fix. Jan
> posted his proposed patch here:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/9385fa60-fa5d-f559-a137-6608408f88b0@suse.com/

...that approach is not making any progress either?

Jan, can could provide a short status update here? I'd really like to
get this regression fixed one way or another rather sooner than later,
as this is taken way to long already IMHO.

> The only reservation I have about Jan's patch is that the commit
> message does not clearly explain how the patch changes what
> the nopat kernel boot option does. It doesn't affect me because
> I don't use nopat, but it should probably be mentioned in the
> commit message, as pointed out here:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/bd9ed2c2-1337-27bb-c9da-dfc7b31d492c@netscape.net/
> 
> 
> Whatever fix for the regression exposed by bdd8b6c98239 also
> needs to be backported to the stable versions 5.17 and 5.18.

Sure.

BTW, as you seem to be familiar with the issue: there is another report
about a regression WRT to Xen and i915 (that is also not making really
progress):
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/Yn%2FTgj1Ehs%2FBdpHp@itl-email/

It's just a wild guess, but bould this somehow be related?

Ciao, Thorsten

>>> The i915 driver relies on the memory subsytem
>>> to provide it with an accurate test for the existence of
>>> X86_FEATURE_PAT. I think your patch provides that more accurate
>>> test so that bdd8b6c98239 could be re-applied when your patch is
>>> committed. Juergen's patch would have to touch bdd8b6c98239
>>> with new functions that probably have unknown and unintended
>>> consequences, so I think your approach is also better in that regard.
>>> As regards your patch, there is just a disagreement about how the
>>> i915 driver should behave if nopat is set. I agree the i915 driver
>>> could do a better job handling that case, at least with better error
>>> logs.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>>> I respond by saying a well-written driver should refuse to honor
>>>>> the incorrect configuration requested by the user and instead
>>>>> warn the user that it did not honor the incorrect kernel option.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am only presuming what your patch would do on my box based
>>>>> on what I learned about this problem from my debugging. I can
>>>>> also test your patch on my box to verify that my understanding of
>>>>> it is correct.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have not yet verified Juergen's patch will not fix it, but
>>>>> I am almost certain it will not unless it is expanded so it also
>>>>> touches i915_gem_object_pin_map() with the fix. I plan to test
>>>>> his patch, but expanded so it touches that function also.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also plan to test your patch with and without nopat and report the
>>>>> results in the thread where you posted your patch. Hopefully
>>>>> by tomorrow I will have the results.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
> 
> 

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