Message-ID: <CADrL8HXeLTiTP0cvq7DY8R0JkQT6gdz=gq06jarhBqyPHDfmzw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Wed, 29 Jun 2022 11:31:10 -0700
From:   James Houghton <jthoughton@...gle.com>
To:     "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@...hat.com>
Cc:     Mina Almasry <almasrymina@...gle.com>,
        Mike Kravetz <mike.kravetz@...cle.com>,
        Muchun Song <songmuchun@...edance.com>,
        Peter Xu <peterx@...hat.com>,
        David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>,
        David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>,
        Axel Rasmussen <axelrasmussen@...gle.com>,
        Jue Wang <juew@...gle.com>,
        Manish Mishra <manish.mishra@...anix.com>, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/26] hugetlb: Introduce HugeTLB high-granularity mapping

On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 10:56 AM Dr. David Alan Gilbert
<dgilbert@...hat.com> wrote:
>
> * Mina Almasry (almasrymina@...gle.com) wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 9:27 AM James Houghton <jthoughton@...gle.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 11:41 AM Mina Almasry <almasrymina@...gle.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 10:37 AM James Houghton <jthoughton@...gle.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > [trimmed...]
> > > > > ---- Userspace API ----
> > > > >
> > > > > This patch series introduces a single way to take advantage of
> > > > > high-granularity mapping: via UFFDIO_CONTINUE. UFFDIO_CONTINUE allows
> > > > > userspace to resolve MINOR page faults on shared VMAs.
> > > > >
> > > > > To collapse a HugeTLB address range that has been mapped with several
> > > > > UFFDIO_CONTINUE operations, userspace can issue MADV_COLLAPSE. We expect
> > > > > userspace to know when all pages (that they care about) have been fetched.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks James! Cover letter looks good. A few questions:
> > > >
> > > > Why not have the kernel collapse the hugepage once all the 4K pages
> > > > have been fetched automatically? It would remove the need for a new
> > > > userspace API, and AFACT there aren't really any cases where it is
> > > > beneficial to have a hugepage sharded into 4K mappings when those
> > > > mappings can be collapsed.
> > >
> > > The reason that we don't automatically collapse mappings is because it
> > > would take additional complexity, and it is less flexible. Consider
> > > the case of 1G pages on x86: currently, userspace can collapse the
> > > whole page when it's all ready, but they can also choose to collapse a
> > > 2M piece of it. On architectures with more supported hugepage sizes
> > > (e.g., arm64), userspace has even more possibilities for when to
> > > collapse. This likely further complicates a potential
> > > automatic-collapse solution. Userspace may also want to collapse the
> > > mapping for an entire hugepage without completely mapping the hugepage
> > > first (this would also be possible by issuing UFFDIO_CONTINUE on all
> > > the holes, though).
> > >
> >
> > To be honest I'm don't think I'm a fan of this. I don't think this
> > saves complexity, but rather pushes it to the userspace. I.e. the
> > userspace now must track which regions are faulted in and which are
> > not to call MADV_COLLAPSE at the right time. Also, if the userspace
> > gets it wrong it may accidentally not call MADV_COLLAPSE (and not get
> > any hugepages) or call MADV_COLLAPSE too early and have to deal with a
> > storm of maybe hundreds of minor faults at once which may take too
> > long to resolve and may impact guest stability, yes?
>
> I think it depends on whether the userspace is already holding bitmaps
> and data structures to let it know when the right time to call collapse
> is; if it already has to do all that book keeping for it's own postcopy
> or whatever process, then getting userspace to call it is easy.
> (I don't know the answer to whether it does have!)

Userspace generally has a lot of information about which pages have
been UFFDIO_CONTINUE'd, but they may not have the information (say,
some atomic count per hpage) to tell them exactly when to collapse.

I think it's worth discussing the tmpfs/THP case right now, too. Right
now, after userfaultfd post-copy, all THPs we have will all be
PTE-mapped. To deal with this, we need to use Zach's MADV_COLLAPSE to
collapse the mappings to PMD mappings (we don't want to wait for
khugepaged to happen upon them -- we want good performance ASAP :)).
In fact, IIUC, khugepaged actually won't collapse these *ever* right
now. I suppose we could enlighten tmpfs's UFFDIO_CONTINUE to
automatically collapse too (thus avoiding the need for MADV_COLLAPSE),
but that could be complicated/unwanted (if that is something we might
want, maybe we should have a separate discussion).

So, as it stands today, we intend to use MADV_COLLAPSE explicitly in
the tmpfs case as soon as it is supported, and so it follows that it's
ok to require userspace to do the same thing for HugeTLBFS-backed
memory.

>
> Dave
>
> > For these reasons I think automatic collapsing is something that will
> > eventually be implemented by us or someone else, and at that point
> > MADV_COLLAPSE for hugetlb memory will become obsolete; i.e. this patch
> > is adding a userspace API that will probably need to be maintained for
> > perpetuity but actually is likely going to be going obsolete "soon".
> > For this reason I had hoped that automatic collapsing would come with
> > V1.

Small, unimportant clarification: the API, as described here, won't be
*completely* meaningless if we end up implementing automatic
collapsing :) It still has the effect of not requiring other
UFFDIO_CONTINUE operations to be done for the collapsed region.

> >
> > I wonder if we can have a very simple first try at automatic
> > collapsing for V1? I.e., can we support collapsing to the hstate size
> > and only that? So 4K pages can only be either collapsed to 2MB or 1G
> > on x86 depending on the hstate size. I think this may be not too
> > difficult to implement: we can have a counter similar to mapcount that
> > tracks how many of the subpages are mapped (subpage_mapcount). Once
> > all the subpages are mapped (the counter reaches a certain value),
> > trigger collapsing similar to hstate size MADV_COLLAPSE.
> >

In my estimation, to implement automatic collapsing, for one VMA, we
will need a per-hstate count, where when the count reaches the maximum
number, we collapse automatically to the next most optimal size. So if
we finish filling in enough PTEs for a CONT_PTE, we will collapse to a
CONT_PTE. If we finish filling up CONT_PTEs to a PMD, then collapse to
a PMD.

If you are suggesting to only collapse to the hstate size at the end,
then we lose flexibility.

> > I gather that no one else reviewing this has raised this issue thus
> > far so it might not be a big deal and I will continue to review the
> > RFC, but I had hoped for automatic collapsing myself for the reasons
> > above.

Thanks for the thorough review, Mina. :)

> >
> > > >
> > > > > ---- HugeTLB Changes ----
> > > > >
> > > > > - Mapcount
> > > > > The way mapcount is handled is different from the way that it was handled
> > > > > before. If the PUD for a hugepage is not none, a hugepage's mapcount will
> > > > > be increased. This scheme means that, for hugepages that aren't mapped at
> > > > > high granularity, their mapcounts will remain the same as what they would
> > > > > have been pre-HGM.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I didn't quite follow this. It says mapcount is handled
> > > > differently, but the same if the page is not mapped at high
> > > > granularity. Can you elaborate on how the mapcount handling will be
> > > > different when the page is mapped at high granularity?
> > >
> > > I guess I didn't phrase this very well. For the sake of simplicity,
> > > consider 1G pages on x86, typically mapped with leaf-level PUDs.
> > > Previously, there were two possibilities for how a hugepage was
> > > mapped, either it was (1) completely mapped (PUD is present and a
> > > leaf), or (2) it wasn't mapped (PUD is none). Now we have a third
> > > case, where the PUD is not none but also not a leaf (this usually
> > > means that the page is partially mapped). We handle this case as if
> > > the whole page was mapped. That is, if we partially map a hugepage
> > > that was previously unmapped (making the PUD point to PMDs), we
> > > increment its mapcount, and if we completely unmap a partially mapped
> > > hugepage (making the PUD none), we decrement its mapcount. If we
> > > collapse a non-leaf PUD to a leaf PUD, we don't change mapcount.
> > >
> > > It is possible for a PUD to be present and not a leaf (mapcount has
> > > been incremented) but for the page to still be unmapped: if the PMDs
> > > (or PTEs) underneath are all none. This case is atypical, and as of
> > > this RFC (without bestowing MADV_DONTNEED with HGM flexibility), I
> > > think it would be very difficult to get this to happen.
> > >
> >
> > Thank you for the detailed explanation. Please add it to the cover letter.
> >
> > I wonder the case "PUD present but all the PMD are none": is that a
> > bug? I don't understand the usefulness of that. Not a comment on this
> > patch but rather a curiosity.
> >
> > > >
> > > > > - Page table walking and manipulation
> > > > > A new function, hugetlb_walk_to, handles walking HugeTLB page tables for
> > > > > high-granularity mappings. Eventually, it's possible to merge
> > > > > hugetlb_walk_to with huge_pte_offset and huge_pte_alloc.
> > > > >
> > > > > We keep track of HugeTLB page table entries with a new struct, hugetlb_pte.
> > > > > This is because we generally need to know the "size" of a PTE (previously
> > > > > always just huge_page_size(hstate)).
> > > > >
> > > > > For every page table manipulation function that has a huge version (e.g.
> > > > > huge_ptep_get and ptep_get), there is a wrapper for it (e.g.
> > > > > hugetlb_ptep_get).  The correct version is used depending on if a HugeTLB
> > > > > PTE really is "huge".
> > > > >
> > > > > - Synchronization
> > > > > For existing bits of HugeTLB, synchronization is unchanged. For splitting
> > > > > and collapsing HugeTLB PTEs, we require that the i_mmap_rw_sem is held for
> > > > > writing, and for doing high-granularity page table walks, we require it to
> > > > > be held for reading.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---- Limitations & Future Changes ----
> > > > >
> > > > > This patch series only implements high-granularity mapping for VM_SHARED
> > > > > VMAs.  I intend to implement enough HGM to support 4K unmapping for memory
> > > > > failure recovery for both shared and private mappings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The memory failure use case poses its own challenges that can be
> > > > > addressed, but I will do so in a separate RFC.
> > > > >
> > > > > Performance has not been heavily scrutinized with this patch series. There
> > > > > are places where lock contention can significantly reduce performance. This
> > > > > will be addressed later.
> > > > >
> > > > > The patch series, as it stands right now, is compatible with the VMEMMAP
> > > > > page struct optimization[3], as we do not need to modify data contained
> > > > > in the subpage page structs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other omissions:
> > > > >  - Compatibility with userfaultfd write-protect (will be included in v1).
> > > > >  - Support for mremap() (will be included in v1). This looks a lot like
> > > > >    the support we have for fork().
> > > > >  - Documentation changes (will be included in v1).
> > > > >  - Completely ignores PMD sharing and hugepage migration (will be included
> > > > >    in v1).
> > > > >  - Implementations for architectures that don't use GENERAL_HUGETLB other
> > > > >    than arm64.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---- Patch Breakdown ----
> > > > >
> > > > > Patch 1     - Preliminary changes
> > > > > Patch 2-10  - HugeTLB HGM core changes
> > > > > Patch 11-13 - HugeTLB HGM page table walking functionality
> > > > > Patch 14-19 - HugeTLB HGM compatibility with other bits
> > > > > Patch 20-23 - Userfaultfd and collapse changes
> > > > > Patch 24-26 - arm64 support and selftests
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] This used to be called HugeTLB double mapping, a bad and confusing
> > > > >     name. "High-granularity mapping" is not a great name either. I am open
> > > > >     to better names.
> > > >
> > > > I would drop 1 extra word and do "granular mapping", as in the mapping
> > > > is more granular than what it normally is (2MB/1G, etc).
> > >
> > > Noted. :)
> >
> --
> Dr. David Alan Gilbert / dgilbert@...hat.com / Manchester, UK
>

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