Date:   Fri, 30 Sep 2022 13:10:39 -0500
From:   Youssef Esmat <youssefesmat@...gle.com>
To:     Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org>
Cc:     Qais Yousef <qais.yousef@....com>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>, juri.lelli@...hat.com,
        vincent.guittot@...aro.org,
        Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@....com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>, bristot@...hat.com,
        clark.williams@...il.com, bigeasy@...utronix.de,
        "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: Sum of weights idea for CFS PI

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 12:42 PM Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org> wrote:
>
> On 9/30/2022 11:44 AM, Youssef Esmat wrote:
> > Hi Everyone!
>
> Hi Youssef,
>
> (Youssef is new to LKML though in no way new to OS or software development. I
> gave him the usual 'dont-top-post' chat already - fyi).
>
> > I am not sure we should care about A's sleeping pattern. The case we
> > care about is when A is running or wants to run but can't because it
> > is blocked on C. In that case C should get the weight of A as if A was
> > running.
>
> Just to clarify - Youssef did mean sum of weights of different things in the
> chain, and not just weights (he confirmed on chat that that's what he meant).
>

Yeah thanks for clarifying, I meant that C should get the sum of
weights as if A was running (3/5 in your example) since in this
segment of time A would have been running if it was not blocked on the
lock. I think it's safe to ignore the average and just use the sum of
weights.

So it would look like this:

Time ->
A: Slp, 2/5, Blk, 2/5, Slp
B: 1/3, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/3
C: 1/3, 1/5, 3/5, 1/5, 1/3
D: 1/3, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/3

* Slp means sleeping
* Blk means blocked on the lock owned by C.

> > Ideally this is also a temporary boost since critical sections should
> > be relatively small, so erring on the side of giving C slightly more
> > runtime would be safe I think.
>
> True. But I would not hold my breath too much on user space not holding a lock
> for very long periods of time. But I agree that generally should be true.
>
> thanks,
>
>  - Joel
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Youssef
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 8:49 AM Qais Yousef <qais.yousef@....com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Joel
> >>
> >> I'm interested in the topic, if I can be CCed in any future discussions I'd
> >> appreciate it :)
> >>
> >> On 09/29/22 16:38, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> >>> Hi Peter, all,
> >>>
> >>> Just following-up about the idea Peter suggested at LPC22 about sum of weights
> >>> to solve the CFS priority inversion issues using priority inheritance. I am not
> >>> sure if a straight forward summation of the weights of dependencies in the
> >>> chain, is sufficient (or may cause too much unfairness).
> >>>
> >>> I think it will work if all the tasks on CPU are 100% in utilization:
> >>>
> >>> Say if you have 4 tasks (A, B, C, D) running and each one has equal
> >>> weight (W) except for A which has twice the weight (2W).
> >>> So the CPU bandwidth distribution is (assuming all are running):
> >>> A:   2 / 5
> >>> B, C. D:  1 / 5
> >>>
> >>> Say out of the 4 tasks, 3 of them are a part of a classical priority
> >>> inversion scenario (A, B and C).
> >>>
> >>> Say now A blocks on a lock and that lock's owner C is running, however now
> >>> because A has blocked, B gets 1/3 bandwidth, where as it should have been
> >>> limited to 1/5. To remedy this, say you give C a weight of 2W. B gets 1/4
> >>> bandwidth - still not fair since B is eating away CPU bandwidth causing the
> >>> priority inversion we want to remedy.
> >>>
> >>> The correct bandwidth distribution should be (B and D should be unchanged):
> >>> B = 1/5
> >>> D = 1/5
> >>>
> >>> C = 3/5
> >>>
> >>> This means that C's weight should be 3W , and B and D should be W each
> >>> as before. So indeed, C's new weight is its original weight PLUS the
> >>> weight of the A - that's needed to keep the CPU usage of the other
> >>> tasks (B, D) in check so that C makes forward progress on behalf of A and the
> >>> other tasks don't eat into the CPU utilization.
> >>>
> >>> However, I think this will kinda fall apart if A is asleep 50% of the time
> >>> (assume the sleep is because of I/O and unrelated to the PI chain).
> >>>
> >>> Because now if all were running (and assume no PI dependencies), with A being
> >>> 50%, the bandwidth of B, C and D each would be divided into 2 components:
> >>>
> >>> a.  when A is running, it would be as above.
> >>> b.  but if A was sleeping, B, C, and D would get 1/3.
> >>>
> >>> So on average, B, C and D get:  (1/3 + 1/5) / 2 = 8/30. This gives A about 6/30
> >>> or 1/5 bandwidth.
> >>
> >> The average metric is interesting one. It can be confusing to reason about too.
> >>
> >> I think we have 3 events to take into account here, not 2:
> >>
> >> a. when A is running and NOT blocked on C.
> >> b. when A is running and BLOCKED on C.
> >> c. A is sleeping.
> >>
> >> This means A, B, C and D's shares will be:
> >>
> >>     A ,  B ,  C ,  D
> >> a. 2/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5
> >> b. -  , 3/5, 1/5, 1/5
> >> c. -  , 1/3, 1/3, 1/3
> >>
> >> Since A is sleeping for 50%, I don't think we can assume equal distribution for
> >> the 3 events (can't just divide by 3).
> >>
> >> I believe we can assume that
> >>
> >> a. occurs 25% of the time
> >> b. occurs 25% of the time
> >> c. occurs 50% of the time
> >>
> >> I *think* this should provide something more representative.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> But now say A happen to block on a lock that C is holding. You would boost C to
> >>> weight 3W which gives it 3/5 (or 18/30) as we saw above, which is more than what
> >>> C should actually get.
> >>>
> >>> C should get (8/30 + 6/30 = 14/30) AFAICS.
> >>>
> >>> Hopefully one can see that a straight summation of weights is not enough. It
> >>> needs to be something like:
> >>>
> >>> C's new weight = C's original weight + (A's weight) * (A's utilization)
> >>>
> >>> Or something, otherwise the inherited weight may be too much to properly solve it.
> >>>
> >>> Any thoughts on this? You mentioned you had some notes on this and/or proxy
> >>> execution, could you share it?
> >>
> >> I assume we'll be using rt-mutex inheritance property to handle this? If this
> >> was discussed during a talk, I'd appreciate a link to that.
> >>
> >> In the past in OSPM conference we brought up an issue with performance
> >> inversion where a task running on a smaller (slower to be more generic) CPU is
> >> holding the lock and causing massive delays for waiters. This is an artefact of
> >> DVFS. For HMP, there's an additional cause due to the unequal capacities of the
> >> CPUs.
> >>
> >> Proxy execution seems to be the nice solution to all of these problems, but
> >> it's a long way away. I'm interested to learn how this inheritance will be
> >> implemented. And whether there are any userspace conversion issues. i.e: do
> >> we need to convert all locks to rt-mutex locks?
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> --
> >> Qais Yousef

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