Date:   Fri, 30 Sep 2022 09:56:41 +0900
From:   Gotou, Yasunori/五島 康文 
        <y-goto@...itsu.com>
To:     Yang, Xiao/杨 晓 <yangx.jy@...itsu.com>,
        "Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@...nel.org>,
        Brian Foster <bfoster@...hat.com>,
        "hch@...radead.org" <hch@...radead.org>
Cc:     Ruan, Shiyang/阮 世阳 
        <ruansy.fnst@...itsu.com>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-xfs@...r.kernel.org" <linux-xfs@...r.kernel.org>,
        "nvdimm@...ts.linux.dev" <nvdimm@...ts.linux.dev>,
        "linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "david@...morbit.com" <david@...morbit.com>, zwisler@...nel.org,
        Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@...hat.com>, dm-devel@...hat.com,
        toshi.kani@....com
Subject: Re: [PATCH] xfs: fail dax mount if reflink is enabled on a partition

Hello everyone,

On 2022/09/20 11:38, Yang, Xiao/杨 晓 wrote:
> Hi Darrick, Brian and Christoph
> 
> Ping. I hope to get your feedback.
> 
> 1) I have confirmed that the following patch set did not change the test 
> result of generic/470 with thin-volume. Besides, I didn't see any 
> failure when running generic/470 based on normal PMEM device instaed of 
> thin-volume.
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-xfs/20211129102203.2243509-1-hch@lst.de/
> 
> 2) I can reproduce the failure of generic/482 without thin-volume.
> 
> 3) Is it necessary to make thin-volume support DAX. Is there any use 
> case for the requirement?


Though I asked other place(*), I really want to know the usecase of
dm-thin-volume with DAX and reflink.


In my understanding, dm-thin-volume seems to provide similar feature 
like reflink of xfs. Both feature provide COW update to reduce usage of
its region, and snapshot feature, right?

I found that docker seems to select one of them (or other feature which 
supports COW). Then user don't need to use thin-volume and reflink at 
same time.

Database which uses FS-DAX may want to use snapshot for its data of 
FS-DAX, its user seems to be satisfied with reflink or thin-volume.

So I could not find on what use-case user would like to use 
dm-thin-volume and reflink at same time.

The only possibility is that the user has mistakenly configured 
dm-thinpool and reflink to be used at the same time, but if that is the 
case, it seems to be better for the user to disable one or the other.

I really wander why dm-thin-volume must be used with reflik and FS-DAX.

If my understanding is something wrong, please correct me.

(*)https://lore.kernel.org/all/TYWPR01MB1008258F474CA2295B4CD3D9B90549@TYWPR01MB10082.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com/

Thanks,
---
Yasunori Goto


> 
> Best Regards,
> Xiao Yang
> 
> On 2022/9/16 10:04, Yang, Xiao/杨 晓 wrote:
>> On 2022/9/15 18:14, Yang, Xiao/杨 晓 wrote:
>>> On 2022/9/15 0:28, Darrick J. Wong wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 08:34:26AM -0400, Brian Foster wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 05:38:02PM +0800, Yang, Xiao/杨 晓 wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022/9/14 14:44, Yang, Xiao/杨 晓 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022/9/9 21:01, Brian Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes.. I don't recall all the internals of the tools and test, 
>>>>>>>> but IIRC
>>>>>>>> it relied on discard to perform zeroing between checkpoints or 
>>>>>>>> some such
>>>>>>>> and avoid spurious failures. The purpose of running on dm-thin was
>>>>>>>> merely to provide reliable discard zeroing behavior on the 
>>>>>>>> target device
>>>>>>>> and thus to allow the test to run reliably.
>>>>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as I know, generic/470 was original designed to verify
>>>>>>> mmap(MAP_SYNC) on the dm-log-writes device enabling DAX. Due to the
>>>>>>> reason, we need to ensure that all underlying devices under
>>>>>>> dm-log-writes device support DAX. However dm-thin device never 
>>>>>>> supports
>>>>>>> DAX so
>>>>>>> running generic/470 with dm-thin device always returns "not run".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please see the difference between old and new logic:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             old logic                          new logic
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> log-writes device(DAX)                 log-writes device(DAX)
>>>>>>>               |                                       |
>>>>>>> PMEM0(DAX) + PMEM1(DAX)       Thin device(non-DAX) + PMEM1(DAX)
>>>>>>>                                             |
>>>>>>>                                           PMEM0(DAX)
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We think dm-thin device is not a good solution for generic/470, 
>>>>>>> is there
>>>>>>> any other solution to support both discard zero and DAX?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have sent a patch[1] to revert your fix because I think it's not 
>>>>>> good for
>>>>>> generic/470 to use thin volume as my revert patch[1] describes:
>>>>>> [1] 
>>>>>> https://lore.kernel.org/fstests/20220914090625.32207-1-yangx.jy@fujitsu.com/T/#u 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the history here is that generic/482 was changed over first in
>>>>> commit 65cc9a235919 ("generic/482: use thin volume as data 
>>>>> device"), and
>>>>> then sometime later we realized generic/455,457,470 had the same 
>>>>> general
>>>>> flaw and were switched over. The dm/dax compatibility thing was 
>>>>> probably
>>>>> just an oversight, but I am a little curious about that because it 
>>>>> should
>>>>
>>>> It's not an oversight -- it used to work (albeit with EXPERIMENTAL
>>>> tags), and now we've broken it on fsdax as the pmem/blockdev divorce
>>>> progresses.
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Do you mean that the following patch set changed the test result of 
>>> generic/470 with thin-volume? (pass => not run/failure)
>>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-xfs/20211129102203.2243509-1-hch@lst.de/
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> have been obvious that the change caused the test to no longer run. 
>>>>> Did
>>>>> something change after that to trigger that change in behavior?
>>>>>
>>>>>> With the revert, generic/470 can always run successfully on my 
>>>>>> environment
>>>>>> so I wonder how to reproduce the out-of-order replay issue on XFS v5
>>>>>> filesystem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't quite recall the characteristics of the failures beyond 
>>>>> that we
>>>>> were seeing spurious test failures with generic/482 that were due to
>>>>> essentially putting the fs/log back in time in a way that wasn't quite
>>>>> accurate due to the clearing by the logwrites tool not taking 
>>>>> place. If
>>>>> you wanted to reproduce in order to revisit that, perhaps start with
>>>>> generic/482 and let it run in a loop for a while and see if it
>>>>> eventually triggers a failure/corruption..?
>>>>>
>>>>>> PS: I want to reproduce the issue and try to find a better 
>>>>>> solution to fix
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been a while since I looked at any of this tooling to 
>>>>> semi-grok how
>>>>> it works.
>>>>
>>>> I /think/ this was the crux of the problem, back in 2019?
>>>> https://lore.kernel.org/fstests/20190227061529.GF16436@dastard/
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps it could learn to rely on something more explicit like
>>>>> zero range (instead of discard?) or fall back to manual zeroing?
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT src/log-writes/ actually /can/ do zeroing, but (a) it probably
>>>> ought to be adapted to call BLKZEROOUT and (b) in the worst case it
>>>> writes zeroes to the entire device, which is/can be slow.
>>>>
>>>> For a (crass) example, one of my cloudy test VMs uses 34GB partitions,
>>>> and for cost optimization purposes we're only "paying" for the cheapest
>>>> tier.  Weirdly that maps to an upper limit of 6500 write iops and
>>>> 48MB/s(!) but that would take about 20 minutes to zero the entire
>>>> device if the dm-thin hack wasn't in place.  Frustratingly, it doesn't
>>>> support discard or write-zeroes.
>>>
>>> Do you mean that discard zero(BLKDISCARD) is faster than both fill 
>>> zero(BLKZEROOUT) and write zero on user space?
>>
>> Hi Darrick, Brian and Christoph
>>
>> According to the discussion about generic/470. I wonder if it is 
>> necessary to make thin-pool support DAX. Is there any use case for the 
>> requirement?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Xiao Yang
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Xiao Yang
>>>>
>>>>> If the
>>>>> eventual solution is simple and low enough overhead, it might make 
>>>>> some
>>>>> sense to replace the dmthin hack across the set of tests mentioned
>>>>> above.
>>>>
>>>> That said, for a *pmem* test you'd expect it to be faster than that...
>>>>
>>>> --D
>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Xiao Yang
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, only log-writes, stripe and linear support DAX for now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>

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