Message-ID: <Y35ub4MnbcwcgVNp@google.com>
Date:   Wed, 23 Nov 2022 19:03:11 +0000
From:   Sean Christopherson <seanjc@...gle.com>
To:     Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...el.com>
Cc:     "Huang, Kai" <kai.huang@...el.com>,
        "peterz@...radead.org" <peterz@...radead.org>,
        "kvm@...r.kernel.org" <kvm@...r.kernel.org>,
        "Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@...el.com>,
        "bagasdotme@...il.com" <bagasdotme@...il.com>,
        "ak@...ux.intel.com" <ak@...ux.intel.com>,
        "Wysocki, Rafael J" <rafael.j.wysocki@...el.com>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "Chatre, Reinette" <reinette.chatre@...el.com>,
        "pbonzini@...hat.com" <pbonzini@...hat.com>,
        "linux-mm@...ck.org" <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        "Yamahata, Isaku" <isaku.yamahata@...el.com>,
        "kirill.shutemov@...ux.intel.com" <kirill.shutemov@...ux.intel.com>,
        "Shahar, Sagi" <sagis@...gle.com>,
        "imammedo@...hat.com" <imammedo@...hat.com>,
        "Gao, Chao" <chao.gao@...el.com>,
        "Brown, Len" <len.brown@...el.com>,
        "sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@...ux.intel.com" 
        <sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@...ux.intel.com>,
        "Huang, Ying" <ying.huang@...el.com>,
        "Williams, Dan J" <dan.j.williams@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 06/20] x86/virt/tdx: Shut down TDX module in case of
 error

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022, Dave Hansen wrote:
> On 11/23/22 09:37, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2022, Dave Hansen wrote:
> >> There's no way we can guarantee _that_.  For one, the PAMT* allocations
> >> can always fail.  I guess we could ask sysadmins to fire up a guest to
> >> "prime" things, but that seems a little silly.  Maybe that would work as
> >> the initial implementation that we merge, but I suspect our users will
> >> demand more determinism, maybe a boot or module parameter.
> > Oh, you mean all of TDX initialization?  I thought "initialization" here mean just
> > doing tdx_enable().
> 
> Yes, but the first call to tdx_enable() does TDH_SYS_INIT and all the
> subsequent work to get the module going.

Ah, sorry, I misread the diff.  Actually applied the patches this time...

> > Yeah, that's not going to be a viable option.  Aside from lacking determinisim,
> > it would be all too easy to end up on a system with fragmented memory that can't
> > allocate the PAMTs post-boot.
> 
> For now, the post-boot runtime PAMT allocations are the one any only way
> that TDX can be initialized.  I pushed for it to be done this way.
> Here's why:
> 
> Doing tdx_enable() is relatively slow and it eats up a non-zero amount
> of physically contiguous RAM for metadata (~1/256th or ~0.4% of RAM).
> Systems that support TDX but will never run TDX guests should not pay
> that cost.
> 
> That means that we either make folks opt-in at boot-time or we try to
> make a best effort at runtime to do the metadata allocations.
> 
> From my perspective, the best-effort stuff is absolutely needed.  Users
> are going to forget the command-line opt in

Eh, any sufficiently robust deployment should be able to ensure that its kernels
boot with "required" command-line options.

> and there's no harm in _trying_ the big allocations even if they fail.

No, but there is "harm" if a host can't provide the functionality the control
plane thinks it supports.

> Second, in reality, the "real" systems that can run TDX guests are
> probably not going to sit around fragmenting memory for a month before
> they run their first guest.  They're going to run one shortly after they
> boot when memory isn't fragmented and the best-effort allocation will
> work really well.

I don't think this will hold true.  Long term, we (Google) want to have a common
pool for non-TDX and TDX VMs.  Forcing TDX VMs to use a dedicated pool of hosts
makes it much more difficult to react to demand, e.g. if we carve out N hosts for
TDX, but only use 10% of those hosts, then that's a lot of wasted capacity/money.
IIRC, people have discussed dynamically reconfiguring hosts so that systems could
be moved in/out of a dedicated pool, but that's still suboptimal, e.g. would
require emptying a host to reboot+reconfigure..

If/when we end up with a common pool, then it's very likely that we could have a
TDX-capable host go weeks/months before launching its first TDX VM.

> Third, if anyone *REALLY* cared to make it reliable *and* wanted to sit
> around fragmenting memory for a month, they could just start a TDX guest
> and kill it to get TDX initialized.  This isn't ideal.  But, to me, it
> beats defining some new, separate ABI (or boot/module option) to do it.

That's a hack.  I have no objection to waiting until KVM is _loaded_ to initialize
TDX, but waiting until KVM_CREATE_VM is not acceptable.  Use cases aside, KVM's ABI
would be a mess, e.g. KVM couldn't use KVM_CHECK_EXTENSION or any other /dev/kvm
ioctl() to enumerate TDX support.

> So, let's have those discussions.  Long-term, what *is* the most
> reliable way to get the TDX module loaded with 100% determinism?  What
> new ABI or interfaces are needed?  Also, is that 100% determinism
> required the moment this series is merged?  Or, can we work up to it?

I don't think we (Google again) strictly need 100% determinism with respect to
enabling TDX, what's most important is that if a host says it's TDX-capable, then
it really is TDX-capable.  I'm sure we'll treat "failure to load" as an error,
but it doesn't necessarily need to be a fatal error as the host can still run in
a degraded state (no idea if we'll actually do that though).

> I think it can wait until this particular series is farther along.

For an opt-in kernel param, agreed.  That can be added later, e.g. if it turns
out that the PAMT allocation failure rate is too high.

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