Message-ID: <cb4c5572-baff-6c0c-5aba-d2867664c682@gmail.com>
Date:   Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:14:11 +0700
From:   Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@...il.com>
To:     David Vernet <void@...ifault.com>, bpf@...r.kernel.org
Cc:     ast@...nel.org, daniel@...earbox.net, andrii@...nel.org,
        martin.lau@...ux.dev, song@...nel.org, yhs@...a.com,
        john.fastabend@...il.com, kpsingh@...nel.org, sdf@...gle.com,
        haoluo@...gle.com, jolsa@...nel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        kernel-team@...a.com, toke@...hat.com, brouer@...hat.com,
        corbet@....net, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next v2] bpf/docs: Document kfunc lifecycle /
 stability expectations

On 2/3/23 05:35, David Vernet wrote:
> diff --git a/Documentation/bpf/kfuncs.rst b/Documentation/bpf/kfuncs.rst
> index 0bd07b39c2a4..4135f3111b67 100644
> --- a/Documentation/bpf/kfuncs.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/bpf/kfuncs.rst
> @@ -13,7 +13,7 @@ BPF Kernel Functions or more commonly known as kfuncs are functions in the Linux
>  kernel which are exposed for use by BPF programs. Unlike normal BPF helpers,
>  kfuncs do not have a stable interface and can change from one kernel release to
>  another. Hence, BPF programs need to be updated in response to changes in the
> -kernel.
> +kernel. See :ref:`BPF_kfunc_lifecycle_expectations` for more information.
>  
>  2. Defining a kfunc
>  ===================
> @@ -238,6 +238,32 @@ single argument which must be a trusted argument or a MEM_RCU pointer.
>  The argument may have reference count of 0 and the kfunc must take this
>  into consideration.
>  
> +.. _KF_deprecated_flag:
> +
> +2.4.9 KF_DEPRECATED flag
> +------------------------
> +
> +The KF_DEPRECATED flag is used for kfuncs which are expected to be changed or
> +removed in a subsequent kernel release. Deprecated kfuncs may be removed at any
> +time, though if possible (and when applicable), developers are encouraged to
> +provide users with a deprecation window to ease the burden of migrating off of
> +the kfunc.
> +
> +A kfunc that is marked with KF_DEPRECATED should also have any relevant
> +information captured in its kernel doc. Such information typically includes the
> +kfunc's expected remaining lifespan, a recommendation for new functionality
> +that can replace it if any is available, and possibly a rationale for why it is
> +being removed.
> +
> +Note that while on some occasions, a KF_DEPRECATED kfunc may continue to be
> +supported and have its KF_DEPRECATED flag removed, it is likely to be far more
> +difficult to remove a KF_DEPRECATED flag after it's been added than it is to
> +prevent it from being added in the first place. As described in
> +:ref:`BPF_kfunc_lifecycle_expectations`, users that rely on specific kfuncs are
> +highly encouraged to make their use-cases known as early as possible, and
> +participate in upstream discussions regarding whether to keep, change,
> +deprecate, or remove those kfuncs if and when such discussions occur.
> +
>  2.5 Registering the kfuncs
>  --------------------------
>  
> @@ -304,14 +330,116 @@ In order to accommodate such requirements, the verifier will enforce strict
>  PTR_TO_BTF_ID type matching if two types have the exact same name, with one
>  being suffixed with ``___init``.
>  
> -3. Core kfuncs
> +.. _BPF_kfunc_lifecycle_expectations:
> +
> +3. kfunc lifecycle expectations
> +===============================
> +
> +kfuncs provide a kernel <-> kernel API, and thus are not bound by any of the
> +strict stability restrictions associated with kernel <-> user UAPIs. Instead,
> +they're modeled more similarly to EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL, and can therefore be
> +modified or removed by a maintainer of the subsystem they're defined in when
> +it's deemed necessary.
> +
> +Like any other change to the kernel, maintainers will not change or remove a
> +kfunc without having a reasonable justification.  Whether or not they'll choose
> +to change a kfunc will ultimately depend on a variety of factors, such as how
> +widely used the kfunc is, how long the kfunc has been in the kernel, whether an
> +alternative kfunc exists, what the norm is in terms of stability for the
> +subsystem in question, and of course what the technical cost is of continuing
> +to support the kfunc.
> +
> +There are several implications of this:
> +
> +a) kfuncs that are widely used or have been in the kernel for a long time will
> +   be more difficult to justify being changed or removed by a maintainer. Said
> +   in a different way, kfuncs that are known to have a lot of users and provide
> +   significant value provide stronger incentives for maintainers to invest the
> +   time and complexity in supporting them. It is therefore important for
> +   developers that are using kfuncs in their BPF programs to communicate and
> +   explain how and why those kfuncs are being used, and to participate in
> +   discussions regarding those kfuncs when they occur upstream.
> +
> +b) Because many BPF programs are not upstreamed as part of the kernel tree, it
> +   is often not possible to change them in-place when a kfunc changes, as it is
> +   for e.g. an upstreamed driver being updated in place when an
> +   EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL symbol is changed. Distributions that bundle BPF programs
> +   that use kfuncs must therefore ensure that those BPF programs are linking
> +   against the kfuncs that are supported by the kernel version being used for
> +   any given release. Additionally, BPF developers are encouraged to upstream
> +   their BPF programs so they can enjoy the same benefits as upstreamed
> +   modules, and avoid code churn.
> +
> +   On the other hand, while the hope is that it will become the norm to
> +   upstream BPF programs, the reality is that most BPF programs are still
> +   out-of-tree. This means that users with out-of-tree BPF programs that use
> +   kfuncs should be considered relevant to discussions and decisions around
> +   modifying and removing kfuncs, despite that not being the norm for
> +   out-of-tree kernel modules. The BPF community will take an active role in
> +   participating in upstream discussions when necessary to ensure that the
> +   perspectives of such users are taken into account.
> +
> +c) A kfunc will never have any hard stability guarantees. BPF APIs cannot and
> +   will not ever hard-block a change in the kernel purely for stability
> +   reasons. In other words, kfuncs have the same stability guarantees as any
> +   other kernel API, such as those provided by EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL, though with
> +   perhaps less burden than EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL changes thanks to BPF CO-RE.
> +
> +   That being said, kfuncs are features that are meant to solve problems and
> +   provide value to users. The decision of whether to change or remove a kfunc
> +   is a multivariate technical decision that is made on a case-by-case basis,
> +   and which is informed by data points such as those mentioned above. It is
> +   expected that a kfunc being removed or changed with no warning will not be a
> +   common occurrence or take place without sound justification, but it is a
> +   possibility that must be accepted if one is to use kfuncs.
> +
> +3.1 kfunc deprecation
> +---------------------
> +
> +As described above, while sometimes a maintainer may find that a kfunc must be
> +changed or removed immediately to accommodate some changes in their subsystem,
> +other kfuncs may be able to accommodate a longer and more measured deprecation
> +process. For example, if a new kfunc comes along which provides superior
> +functionality to an existing kfunc, the existing kfunc may be deprecated for
> +some period of time to allow users to migrate their BPF programs to use the new
> +one. Or, if a kfunc has no known users, a decision may be made to remove the
> +kfunc (without providing an alternative API) after some deprecation period
> +period so as to provide users with a window to notify the kfunc maintainer if
> +it turns out that the kfunc is actually being used.
> +
> +kfuncs being deprecated (rather than changed or removed with no warning) is
> +expected to be the common case, and as described in :ref:`KF_deprecated_flag`,
> +the kfunc framework provides the KF_DEPRECATED flag to kfunc developers to
> +signal to users that a kfunc has been deprecated. Once a kfunc has been marked
> +with KF_DEPRECATED, the following procedure is followed for removal:
> +
> +1. Any relevant information for deprecated kfuncs is documented in the kfunc's
> +   kernel docs. This documentation will typically include the kfunc's expected
> +   remaining lifespan,  a recommendation for new functionality that can replace
> +   the usage of the deprecated function (or an explanation as to why no such
> +   replacement exists), etc.
> +
> +2. The deprecated kfunc is kept in the kernel for some period of time after it
> +   was first marked as deprecated. This time period will be chosen on a
> +   case-by-case basis, and will typically depend on how widespread the use of
> +   the kfunc is, how long it has been in the kernel, and how hard it is to move
> +   to alternatives. This deprecation time period is "best effort", and as
> +   described :ref:`above<BPF_kfunc_lifecycle_expectations>`, circumstances may
> +   sometimes dictate that the kfunc be removed before the full intended
> +   deprecation period has elapsed.
> +
> +3. After the deprecation period, or sometimes earlier if necessary, the kfunc
> +   will be removed. At this point, BPF programs calling the kfunc will be
> +   rejected by the verifier.
> +
> +4. Core kfuncs
>  ==============
>  
>  The BPF subsystem provides a number of "core" kfuncs that are potentially
>  applicable to a wide variety of different possible use cases and programs.
>  Those kfuncs are documented here.
>  
> -3.1 struct task_struct * kfuncs
> +4.1 struct task_struct * kfuncs
>  -------------------------------
>  
>  There are a number of kfuncs that allow ``struct task_struct *`` objects to be
> @@ -387,7 +515,7 @@ Here is an example of it being used:
>  		return 0;
>  	}
>  
> -3.2 struct cgroup * kfuncs
> +4.2 struct cgroup * kfuncs
>  --------------------------
>  
>  ``struct cgroup *`` objects also have acquire and release functions:
> @@ -502,7 +630,7 @@ the verifier. bpf_cgroup_ancestor() can be used as follows:
>  		return 0;
>  	}
>  
> -3.3 struct cpumask * kfuncs
> +4.3 struct cpumask * kfuncs
>  ---------------------------
>  
>  BPF provides a set of kfuncs that can be used to query, allocate, mutate, and

LGTM, thanks!

Reviewed-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@...il.com>

-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

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