Message-ID: <c533a969-4dd4-70e2-2b4f-469c55c1fad9@linux.intel.com>
Date:   Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:27:18 +0000
From:   Tvrtko Ursulin <tvrtko.ursulin@...ux.intel.com>
To:     "T.J. Mercier" <tjmercier@...gle.com>
Cc:     Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>, Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@...gle.com>,
        linux-doc@...r.kernel.org, daniel.vetter@...ll.ch,
        Roman Gushchin <roman.gushchin@...ux.dev>, cmllamas@...gle.com,
        dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        jstultz@...gle.com, Zefan Li <lizefan.x@...edance.com>,
        Sumit Semwal <sumit.semwal@...aro.org>, android-mm@...gle.com,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>, jeffv@...gle.com,
        linux-media@...r.kernel.org, selinux@...r.kernel.org,
        linaro-mm-sig@...ts.linaro.org, cgroups@...r.kernel.org,
        Muchun Song <muchun.song@...ux.dev>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org,
        Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>,
        Tejun Heo <tj@...nel.org>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Christian König <christian.koenig@....com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/4] memcg: Track exported dma-buffers


On 02/02/2023 23:43, T.J. Mercier wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 6:52 AM Tvrtko Ursulin
> <tvrtko.ursulin@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 01/02/2023 14:23, Tvrtko Ursulin wrote:
>>>
>>> On 01/02/2023 01:49, T.J. Mercier wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 6:01 AM Tvrtko Ursulin
>>>> <tvrtko.ursulin@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25/01/2023 20:04, T.J. Mercier wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 9:31 AM Tvrtko Ursulin
>>>>>> <tvrtko.ursulin@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/01/2023 11:52, Michal Hocko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue 24-01-23 19:46:28, Shakeel Butt wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 03:59:58PM +0100, Michal Hocko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon 23-01-23 19:17:23, T.J. Mercier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> When a buffer is exported to userspace, use memcg to attribute the
>>>>>>>>>>> buffer to the allocating cgroup until all buffer references are
>>>>>>>>>>> released.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is there any reason why this memory cannot be charged during the
>>>>>>>>>> allocation (__GFP_ACCOUNT used)?
>>>>>>>>>> Also you do charge and account the memory but underlying pages
>>>>>>>>>> do not
>>>>>>>>>> know about their memcg (this is normally done with commit_charge
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> user mapped pages). This would become a problem if the memory is
>>>>>>>>>> migrated for example.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think this is movable memory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This also means that you have to maintain memcg
>>>>>>>>>> reference outside of the memcg proper which is not really nice
>>>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>>> This mimicks tcp kmem limit implementation which I really have
>>>>>>>>>> to say I
>>>>>>>>>> am not a great fan of and this pattern shouldn't be coppied.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think we should keep the discussion on technical merits instead of
>>>>>>>>> personal perference. To me using skmem like interface is totally
>>>>>>>>> fine
>>>>>>>>> but the pros/cons need to be very explicit and the clear reasons to
>>>>>>>>> select that option should be included.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do agree with that. I didn't want sound to be personal wrt tcp kmem
>>>>>>>> accounting but the overall code maintenance cost is higher because
>>>>>>>> of how tcp take on accounting differs from anything else in the memcg
>>>>>>>> proper. I would prefer to not grow another example like that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To me there are two options:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Using skmem like interface as this patch series:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The main pros of this option is that it is very simple. Let me
>>>>>>>>> list down
>>>>>>>>> the cons of this approach:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a. There is time window between the actual memory allocation/free
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the charge and uncharge and [un]charge happen when the whole
>>>>>>>>> memory is
>>>>>>>>> allocated or freed. I think for the charge path that might not be
>>>>>>>>> a big
>>>>>>>>> issue but on the uncharge, this can cause issues. The application
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the potential shrinkers have freed some of this dmabuf memory but
>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>> the whole dmabuf is freed, the memcg uncharge will not happen.
>>>>>>>>> This can
>>>>>>>>> consequences on reclaim and oom behavior of the application.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> b. Due to the usage model i.e. a central daemon allocating the
>>>>>>>>> dmabuf
>>>>>>>>> memory upfront, there is a requirement to have a memcg charge
>>>>>>>>> transfer
>>>>>>>>> functionality to transfer the charge from the central daemon to the
>>>>>>>>> client applications. This does introduce complexity and avenues
>>>>>>>>> of weird
>>>>>>>>> reclaim and oom behavior.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. Allocate and charge the memory on page fault by actual user
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In this approach, the memory is not allocated upfront by the central
>>>>>>>>> daemon but rather on the page fault by the client application and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> memcg charge happen at the same time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only cons I can think of is this approach is more involved
>>>>>>>>> and may
>>>>>>>>> need some clever tricks to track the page on the free patch i.e.
>>>>>>>>> we to
>>>>>>>>> decrement the dmabuf memcg stat on free path. Maybe a page flag.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The pros of this approach is there is no need have a charge transfer
>>>>>>>>> functionality and the charge/uncharge being closely tied to the
>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>>>>> memory allocation and free.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Personally I would prefer the second approach but I don't want to
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> block this work if the dmabuf folks are ok with the cons
>>>>>>>>> mentioned of
>>>>>>>>> the first approach.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not familiar with dmabuf internals to judge complexity on
>>>>>>>> their end
>>>>>>>> but I fully agree that charge-when-used is much more easier to reason
>>>>>>>> about and it should have less subtle surprises.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Disclaimer that I don't seem to see patches 3&4 on dri-devel so
>>>>>>> maybe I
>>>>>>> am missing something, but in principle yes, I agree that the 2nd
>>>>>>> option
>>>>>>> (charge the user, not exporter) should be preferred. Thing being
>>>>>>> that at
>>>>>>> export time there may not be any backing store allocated, plus if the
>>>>>>> series is restricting the charge transfer to just Android clients then
>>>>>>> it seems it has the potential to miss many other use cases. At least
>>>>>>> needs to outline a description on how the feature will be useful
>>>>>>> outside
>>>>>>> Android.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no restriction like that. It's available to anybody who wants
>>>>>> to call dma_buf_charge_transfer if they actually have a need for that,
>>>>>> which I don't really expect to be common since most users/owners of
>>>>>> the buffers will be the ones causing the export in the first place.
>>>>>> It's just not like that on Android with the extra allocator process in
>>>>>> the middle most of the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah I used the wrong term "restrict", apologies. What I meant was, if
>>>>> the idea was to allow spotting memory leaks, with the charge transfer
>>>>> being optional and in the series only wired up for Android Binder, then
>>>>> it obviously only fully works for that one case. So a step back..
>>>>>
>>>> Oh, spotting kernel memory leaks is a side-benefit of accounting
>>>> kernel-only buffers in the root cgroup. The primary goal is to
>>>> attribute buffers to applications that originated them (via
>>>> per-application cgroups) simply for accounting purposes. Buffers are
>>>> using memory on the system, and we want to know who created them and
>>>> how much memory is used. That information is/will no longer available
>>>> with the recent deprecation of the dmabuf sysfs statistics.
>>>>
>>>>> .. For instance, it is not feasible to transfer the charge when dmabuf
>>>>> is attached, or imported? That would attribute the usage to the
>>>>> user/importer so give better visibility on who is actually causing the
>>>>> memory leak.
>>>>>
>>>> Instead of accounting at export, we could account at attach. That just
>>>> turns out not to be very useful when the majority of our
>>>> heap-allocated buffers don't have attachments at any particular point
>>>> in time. :\ But again it's less about leaks and more about knowing
>>>> which buffers exist in the first place.
>>>>
>>>>> Further more, if above is feasible, then could it also be implemented in
>>>>> the common layer so it would automatically cover all drivers?
>>>>>
>>>> Which common layer code specifically? The dmabuf interface appears to
>>>> be the most central/common place to me.
>>>
>>> Yes, I meant dma_buf_attach / detach. More below.
>>>>>>> Also stepping back for a moment - is a new memory category really
>>>>>>> needed, versus perhaps attempting to charge the actual backing store
>>>>>>> memory to the correct client? (There might have been many past
>>>>>>> discussions on this so it's okay to point me towards something in the
>>>>>>> archives.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well the dmabuf counter for the stat file is really just a subcategory
>>>>>> of memory that is charged. Its existence is not related to getting the
>>>>>> charge attributed to the right process/cgroup. We do want to know how
>>>>>> much of the memory attributed to a process is for dmabufs, which is
>>>>>> the main point of this series.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I am probably missing something because the statement how proposal
>>>>> is not intended to charge to the right process, but wants to know how
>>>>> much dmabuf "size" is attributed to a process, confuses me due a seeming
>>>>> contradiction. And the fact it would not be externally observable how
>>>>> much of the stats is accurate and how much is not (without knowing the
>>>>> implementation detail of which drivers implement charge transfer and
>>>>> when). Maybe I completely misunderstood the use case.
>>>>>
>>>> Hmm, did I clear this up above or no? The current proposal is for the
>>>> process causing the export of a buffer to be charged for it,
>>>> regardless of whatever happens afterwards. (Unless that process is
>>>> like gralloc on Android, in which case the charge is transferred from
>>>> gralloc to whoever called gralloc to allocate the buffer on their
>>>> behalf.)
>>>
>>> Main problem for me is that charging at export time has no relation to
>>> memory used. But I am not familiar with the memcg counters to know if
>>> any other counter sets that same precedent. If all other are about real
>>> memory use then IMO this does not fit that well. I mean specifically this:
>>>
>>> +      dmabuf (npn)
>>> +        Amount of memory used for exported DMA buffers allocated by the
>>> cgroup.
>>> +        Stays with the allocating cgroup regardless of how the buffer
>>> is shared.
>>> +
>>>
>>> I think that "Amount of memory used for exported..." is not correct. As
>>> implemented it is more akin the virtual address space size in the cpu
>>> space - it can have no relation to the actual usage since backing store
>>> is not allocated until the attachment is made.
>>>
>>> Then also this:
>>>
>>> @@ -446,6 +447,8 @@ struct dma_buf {
>>>            struct dma_buf *dmabuf;
>>>        } *sysfs_entry;
>>>    #endif
>>> +    /* The cgroup to which this buffer is currently attributed */
>>> +    struct mem_cgroup *memcg;
>>>    };
>>>
>>> Does not conceptually fit in my mind. Dmabufs are not associated with
>>> one cgroup at a time.
>>>
>>> So if you would place tracking into dma_buf_attach/detach you would be
>>> able to charge to correct cgroup regardless of a driver and since by
>>> contract at this stage there is backing store, the reflected memory
>>> usage counter would be truthful.
>>>
>>> But then you state a problem, that majority of the time there are no
>>> attachments in your setup, and you also say the proposal is not so much
>>> about leaks but more about knowing what is exported.
>>>
>>> In this case you could additionally track that via dma_buf_getfile /
>>> dma_buf_file_release as a separate category like dmabuf-exported? But
>>> again, I personally don't know if such "may not really be using memory"
>>> counters fit in memcg.
>>>
>>> (Hm you'd probably still need dmabuf->export_memcg to store who was the
>>> original caller of dma_buf_getfile, in case last reference is dropped
>>> from a different process/context. Even dmabuf->attach_memcg for
>>> attach/detach to work correctly for the same reason.)
>>
>> Or to work around the "may not really be using memory" problem with the
>> exported tracking, perhaps you could record dmabuf->export_memcg at
>> dma_buf_export time, but only charge against it at dma_buf_getfile time.
>> Assuming it is possible to keep references to those memcg's over the
>> dmabuf lifetime without any issues.
>>
> I don't follow here. dma_buf_export calls dma_buf_getfile. Did you
> mean dma_buf_attach / dma_buf_mmap instead of dma_buf_getfile? If so
> that's an interesting idea, but want to make sure I'm tracking
> correctly.

Yes sorry, I confused the two sides when typing.

Exported lifetime: dma_buf_getfile to dma_buf_file_release.
Imported lifetime: dma_buf_attach to dma_buf_detach.

Multiple attachments though, so if you want to track imported size the 
importer memcg would probably need to be stored in struct 
dma_buf_attachment.

And exported size would only need to be charged once on first importer 
attaching.

I am not familiar if cgroup migrations would automatically be handled or 
not if you permanently store memcg pointers in the respective dmabuf 
structures.

>> That way we could have dmabuf-exported and dmabuf-imported memcg
>> categories which would better correlate with real memory usage. I say
>> better, because I don't think it would still be perfect since individual
>> drivers are allowed to hold onto the backing store post detach and that
>> is invisible to dmabuf API. But that probably is a different problem.
>>
> Oh, that sounds... broken.

Not broken in general, but definitely an asterisk on the dmabuf charging 
semantics. Unless it is completely incompatible with anything to be 
tracked under memcg?

Regards,

Tvrtko

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