Message-ID: <Y+vLTmGLJP8pR1BG@strix-laptop>
Date:   Wed, 15 Feb 2023 01:56:30 +0800
From:   Chih-En Lin <shiyn.lin@...il.com>
To:     David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>
Cc:     Pasha Tatashin <pasha.tatashin@...een.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Qi Zheng <zhengqi.arch@...edance.com>,
        "Matthew Wilcox (Oracle)" <willy@...radead.org>,
        Christophe Leroy <christophe.leroy@...roup.eu>,
        John Hubbard <jhubbard@...dia.com>,
        Nadav Amit <namit@...are.com>, Barry Song <baohua@...nel.org>,
        Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
        Masami Hiramatsu <mhiramat@...nel.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@...nel.org>,
        Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@....com>,
        Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@...ux.intel.com>,
        Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...nel.org>,
        Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org>,
        Yang Shi <shy828301@...il.com>, Peter Xu <peterx@...hat.com>,
        Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@...e.cz>,
        Zach O'Keefe <zokeefe@...gle.com>,
        Yun Zhou <yun.zhou@...driver.com>,
        Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>,
        Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@...gle.com>,
        Yu Zhao <yuzhao@...gle.com>, Juergen Gross <jgross@...e.com>,
        Tong Tiangen <tongtiangen@...wei.com>,
        Liu Shixin <liushixin2@...wei.com>,
        Anshuman Khandual <anshuman.khandual@....com>,
        Li kunyu <kunyu@...china.com>,
        Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org>,
        Miaohe Lin <linmiaohe@...wei.com>,
        Gautam Menghani <gautammenghani201@...il.com>,
        Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>,
        Mark Brown <broonie@...nel.org>, Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>,
        Vincenzo Frascino <Vincenzo.Frascino@....com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Sebastian Andrzej Siewior <bigeasy@...utronix.de>,
        "Liam R. Howlett" <Liam.Howlett@...cle.com>,
        Fenghua Yu <fenghua.yu@...el.com>,
        Andrei Vagin <avagin@...il.com>,
        Barret Rhoden <brho@...gle.com>,
        Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>,
        "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@...c4.com>,
        Alexey Gladkov <legion@...nel.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-mm@...ck.org, linux-trace-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-perf-users@...r.kernel.org,
        Dinglan Peng <peng301@...due.edu>,
        Pedro Fonseca <pfonseca@...due.edu>,
        Jim Huang <jserv@...s.ncku.edu.tw>,
        Huichun Feng <foxhoundsk.tw@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 00/14] Introduce Copy-On-Write to Page Table

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 06:03:58PM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote:
> On 14.02.23 17:58, David Hildenbrand wrote:
> > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Honestly, for improving the fork(), I have an idea to skip the per-page
> > > > > operation without breaking the logic. However, this will introduce the
> > > > > complicated mechanism and may has the overhead for other features. It
> > > > > might not be worth it. It's hard to strike a balance between the
> > > > > over-complicated mechanism with (probably) better performance and data
> > > > > consistency with the page status. So, I would focus on the safety and
> > > > > stable approach at first.
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, it is most probably possible, but complexity, robustness and
> > > > maintainability have to be considered as well.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for implementing this approach (only deduplication without other
> > > > optimizations) and evaluating it accordingly. It's certainly "cleaner", such
> > > > that we only have to mess with unsharing and not with other
> > > > accounting/pinning/mapcount thingies. But it also highlights how intrusive
> > > > even this basic deduplication approach already is -- and that most benefits
> > > > of the original approach requires even more complexity on top.
> > > > 
> > > > I am not quite sure if the benefit is worth the price (I am not to decide
> > > > and I would like to hear other options).
> > > 
> > > I'm looking at the discussion of page table sharing in 2002 [1].
> > > It looks like in 2002 ~ 2006, there also have some patches try to
> > > improve fork().
> > > 
> > > After that, I also saw one thread which is about another shared page
> > > table patch's benchmark. I can't find the original patch though [2].
> > > But, I found the probably same patch in 2005 [3], it also mentioned
> > > the previous benchmark discussion:
> > > 
> > > "
> > > For those familiar with the shared page table patch I did a couple of years
> > > ago, this patch does not implement copy-on-write page tables for private
> > > mappings.  Analysis showed the cost and complexity far outweighed any
> > > potential benefit.
> > > "
> > 
> > Thanks for the pointer, interesting read. And my personal opinion is
> > that part of that statement still hold true :)
> > 
> > > 
> > > However, it might be different right now. For example, the implemetation
> > > . We have split page table lock now, so we don't have to consider the
> > > page_table_share_lock thing. Also, presently, we have different use
> > > cases (shells [2] v.s. VM cloning and fuzzing) to consider.
> 
> 
> Oh, and because I stumbled over it, just as an interesting pointer on QEMU
> devel:
> 
> "[PATCH 00/10] Retire Fork-Based Fuzzing" [1]
> 
> [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/20230205042951.3570008-1-alxndr@bu.edu/T/#u

Thanks for the information.
It's interesting.

Thanks,
Chih-En Lin

Powered by blists - more mailing lists