linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH -next v13 10/19] riscv: Allocate user's vector context in the first-use trap

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Wed, 15 Feb 2023 08:14:08 +0100
From:   Björn Töpel <bjorn@...nel.org>
To:     Vineet Gupta <vineetg@...osinc.com>,
        Andy Chiu <andy.chiu@...ive.com>
Cc:     linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org, palmer@...belt.com,
        anup@...infault.org, atishp@...shpatra.org,
        kvm-riscv@...ts.infradead.org, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
        greentime.hu@...ive.com, guoren@...ux.alibaba.com,
        Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@...ive.com>,
        Albert Ou <aou@...s.berkeley.edu>,
        Heiko Stuebner <heiko.stuebner@...ll.eu>,
        Andrew Jones <ajones@...tanamicro.com>,
        Lad Prabhakar <prabhakar.mahadev-lad.rj@...renesas.com>,
        Conor Dooley <conor.dooley@...rochip.com>,
        Jisheng Zhang <jszhang@...nel.org>,
        Vincent Chen <vincent.chen@...ive.com>,
        Guo Ren <guoren@...nel.org>,
        Li Zhengyu <lizhengyu3@...wei.com>,
        Masahiro Yamada <masahiroy@...nel.org>,
        Richard Henderson <richard.henderson@...aro.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH -next v13 10/19] riscv: Allocate user's vector context
 in the first-use trap

Vineet Gupta <vineetg@...osinc.com> writes:

> On 2/14/23 08:50, Björn Töpel wrote:
>> Andy Chiu <andy.chiu@...ive.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hey Björn,
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:43 PM Björn Töpel <bjorn@...nel.org> wrote:
>>>> So, two changes:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Disallow V-enablement if the existing altstack does not fit a V-sized
>>>>     frame.
>>> This could potentially break old programs (non-V) that load new system
>>> libraries (with V), If the program sets a small alt stack and takes
>>> the fault in some libraries that use V. However, existing
>>> implementation will also kill the process when the signal arrives,
>>> finding insufficient stack frame in such cases. I'd choose the second
>>> one if we only have these two options, because there is a chance that
>>> the signal handler may not even run.
>> I think we might have different views here. A process has a pre-V, a and
>> post-V state. Is allowing a process to enter V without the correct
>> preconditions a good idea? Allow to run with V turned on, but not able
>> to correctly handle a signal (the stack is too small)?
>
> The requirement is sane, but the issue is user experience: User trying 
> to bring up some V code has no clue that deep in some startup code some 
> alt stack had been setup and causing his process to be terminated on 
> first V code.
>
>>
>> This was the same argument that the Intel folks had when enabling
>> AMX. Sure, AMX requires *explicit* enablement, but same rules should
>> apply, no?
>>
>>>> 2. Sanitize altstack changes when V is enabled.
>>> Yes, I'd like to have this. But it may be tricky when it comes to
>>> deciding whether V is enabled, due to the first-use trap. If V is
>>> commonly used in system libraries then it is likely that V will be
>>> enabled before an user set an altstack. Sanitizing this case would be
>>> easy and straightforward.
>
> Good. Lets have this in v14 as it seems reasonably easy to implement.
>
>>> But what if the user sets an altstack before
>>> enabling V in the first-use trap? This could happen on a statically
>>> program that has hand-written V routines. This takes us to the 1st
>>> question above, should we fail the user program immediately if the
>>> altstack is set too small?
>
> Please lets not cross threads. We discussed this already at top. While 
> ideally required, seems tricky so lets start with post-V alt stack check.
>
>> For me it's obvious to fail (always) "if the altstack is too small to
>> enable V", because it allows to execute V without proper preconditions.
>>
>> Personally, I prefer a stricter model. Only enter V if you can, and
>> after entering it disallow changing the altstack.
>>
>> Then again, this is *my* opinion and concern. What do other people
>> think? I don't want to stall the series.
>
> I concur that the alt stack checking requirements are sensible in the 
> long run. We can add the obvious check for post-V case and see if there 
> is a sane way to flag pre-V case to.

Reasonable. @Andy does this resonate with you as well?


Björn