Message-ID: <56e7fefe-0c42-14ab-1962-098f9fcd2c0a@schaufler-ca.com>
Date:   Tue, 28 Feb 2023 09:52:15 -0800
From:   Casey Schaufler <casey@...aufler-ca.com>
To:     "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>
Cc:     Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Mateusz Guzik <mjguzik@...il.com>, viro@...iv.linux.org.uk,
        paul@...l-moore.com, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org, casey@...aufler-ca.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 1/2] capability: add cap_isidentical

On 2/28/2023 9:32 AM, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:46:12PM -0800, Casey Schaufler wrote:
>> On 2/27/2023 5:14 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 7:56 AM Mateusz Guzik <mjguzik@...il.com> wrote:
>>>> +static inline bool cap_isidentical(const kernel_cap_t a, const kernel_cap_t b)
>>>> +{
>>>> +       unsigned __capi;
>>>> +       CAP_FOR_EACH_U32(__capi) {
>>>> +               if (a.cap[__capi] != b.cap[__capi])
>>>> +                       return false;
>>>> +       }
>>>> +       return true;
>>>> +}
>>>> +
>>> Side note, and this is not really related to this particular patch
>>> other than because it just brought up the issue once more..
>>>
>>> Our "kernel_cap_t" thing is disgusting.
>>>
>>> It's been a structure containing
>>>
>>>         __u32 cap[_KERNEL_CAPABILITY_U32S];
>>>
>>> basically forever, and it's not likely to change in the future. I
>>> would object to any crazy capability expansion, considering how
>>> useless and painful they've been anyway, and I don't think anybody
>>> really is even remotely planning anything like that anyway.
>>>
>>> And what is _KERNEL_CAPABILITY_U32S anyway? It's the "third version"
>>> of that size:
>>>
>>>   #define _KERNEL_CAPABILITY_U32S    _LINUX_CAPABILITY_U32S_3
>>>
>>> which happens to be the same number as the second version of said
>>> #define, which happens to be "2".
>>>
>>> In other words, that fancy array is just 64 bits. And we'd probably be
>>> better off just treating it as such, and just doing
>>>
>>>         typedef u64 kernel_cap_t;
>>>
>>> since we have to do the special "convert from user space format"
>>> _anyway_, and this isn't something that is shared to user space as-is.
>>>
>>> Then that "cap_isidentical()" would literally be just "a == b" instead
>>> of us playing games with for-loops that are just two wide, and a
>>> compiler that may or may not realize.
>>>
>>> It would literally remove some of the insanity in <linux/capability.h>
>>> - look for CAP_TO_MASK() and CAP_TO_INDEX and CAP_FS_MASK_B0 and
>>> CAP_FS_MASK_B1 and just plain ugliness that comes from this entirely
>>> historical oddity.
>>>
>>> Yes, yes, we started out having it be a single-word array, and yes,
>>> the code is written to think that it might some day be expanded past
>>> the two words it then in 2008 it expanded to two words and 64 bits.
>>> And now, fifteen years later, we use 40 of those 64 bits, and
>>> hopefully we'll never add another one.
>> I agree that the addition of 24 more capabilities is unlikely. The
>> two reasons presented recently for adding capabilities are to implement
>> boutique policies (CAP_MYHARDWAREISSPECIAL) or to break up CAP_SYS_ADMIN.
> FWIW IMO breaking up CAP_SYS_ADMIN is a good thing, so long as we continue
> to do it in the "you can use either CAP_SYS_ADMIN or CAP_NEW_FOO" way.  

You need to have a security policy to reference to add a capability.
Telling the disc to spin in the opposite direction, while important
to control, is not something that will fall under a security policy.
It is also rare for programs to need CAP_SYS_ADMIN for only one thing.

While I agree that we shouldn't be allowing a program to reverse the
spin of a drive just because it needs to adjust memory use on a network
interface, I don't believe that capabilities are the right approach.
Capabilities haven't proven popular for their intended purpose, so I
don't see them as a good candidate for extension. There were good reasons
for capabilities to work the way they do, but they have not all stood
the test of time. I do have a proposed implementation, but it's stuck
behind LSM stacking.

>
> But there haven't been many such patchsets :)
>
>> Neither of these is sustainable with a finite number of capabilities, nor
>> do they fit the security model capabilities implement. It's possible that
>> a small number of additional capabilities will be approved, but even that
>> seems unlikely.
>>
>>
>>> So we have historical reasons for why our kernel_cap_t is so odd. But
>>> it *is* odd.
>>>
>>> Hmm?
>> I don't see any reason that kernel_cap_t shouldn't be a u64. If by some
>> amazing change in mindset we develop need for 65 capabilities, someone can
>> dredge up the old code, shout "I told you so!" and put it back the way it
>> was. Or maybe by then we'll have u128, and can just switch to that.
>>
>>>              Linus

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