Message-ID: <CALs-HstWNYD7HW3kNKjSHF9gd5+DB6ByH-Ay5xboh6dwBxv+-A@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Thu, 29 Jun 2023 16:10:11 -0700
From:   Evan Green <evan@...osinc.com>
To:     Conor Dooley <conor.dooley@...rochip.com>
Cc:     Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@...osinc.com>,
        Simon Hosie <shosie@...osinc.com>,
        Albert Ou <aou@...s.berkeley.edu>,
        Alexandre Ghiti <alexghiti@...osinc.com>,
        Andrew Jones <ajones@...tanamicro.com>,
        Andy Chiu <andy.chiu@...ive.com>,
        Anup Patel <apatel@...tanamicro.com>,
        Greentime Hu <greentime.hu@...ive.com>,
        Guo Ren <guoren@...nel.org>,
        Heiko Stuebner <heiko.stuebner@...ll.eu>,
        Jisheng Zhang <jszhang@...nel.org>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
        Ley Foon Tan <leyfoon.tan@...rfivetech.com>,
        Li Zhengyu <lizhengyu3@...wei.com>,
        Masahiro Yamada <masahiroy@...nel.org>,
        Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@...belt.com>,
        Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@...ive.com>,
        Sia Jee Heng <jeeheng.sia@...rfivetech.com>,
        Sunil V L <sunilvl@...tanamicro.com>,
        Xianting Tian <xianting.tian@...ux.alibaba.com>,
        Yangyu Chen <cyy@...self.name>, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] RISC-V: Probe for unaligned access speed

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:03 AM Conor Dooley <conor.dooley@...rochip.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 12:11:25PM -0700, Evan Green wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 7:15 AM Conor Dooley <conor.dooley@...rochip.com> wrote:
> > > > +void check_misaligned_access(int cpu)
> > > > +{
> > > > +     unsigned long j0, j1;
> > > > +     struct page *page;
> > > > +     void *dst;
> > > > +     void *src;
> > > > +     long word_copies = 0;
> > > > +     long byte_copies = 0;
> > > > +     long speed = RISCV_HWPROBE_MISALIGNED_SLOW;
> > >
> > > Is this not a change from current behaviour, that may actually lead to
> > > incorrect reporting. Presently, only T-Head stuff sets a speed, so
> > > hwprobe falls back to UNKNOWN for everything else. With this, we will
> > > get slow set, for anything failing the test.
> > > Slow is defined as "Misaligned accesses are supported in hardware, but
> > > are slower than the cooresponding aligned accesses sequences (sic)", but
> > > you have no way of knowing, based on the test you are performing, whether
> > > the hardware supports it or if it is emulated by firmware.
> > > Perhaps that is not relevant to userspace, but wanted to know your
> > > thoughts.
> > >
> >
> > Hm, that's true. EMULATED was an easy one when we were planning to get
> > this info from the DT. It also might be an easy one in the future, if
> > we get an SBI call that allows the kernel to take over misaligned trap
> > handling. We'd then be able to do a misaligned access and see if our
> > trap handler got called.
> >
> > One option is to leave the value alone if we fail the FAST test
> > (rather than changing it from UNKNOWN to SLOW). This isn't great
> > though, as it effectively makes UNKNOWN synonymous with SLOW, but in a
> > way where usermode can't tell the difference between "I truly don't
> > know" and "I tried the fast test and it failed".
> >
> > The alternative, as it is now, may mislabel some emulated systems as
> > slow until the new SBI call shows up.
>
> Make that "mislabel some emulated systems forever", existing systems
> don't magically grow support for new extensions unfortunately.

Right.

>
> Realistically though, does it matter to userspace if it is slow because
> the hardware is slow, or if the emulation is slow, since there's not
> really a way for userspace to tell from the syscall by how much it is
> slower.
> It can probably guess that emulation is worse, given how crap the
> speed I see on mpfs is.
>
> I'd rather we did say slow, rather than people start to interpret
> UNKNOWN as slow.

I think I agree.

>
> > I'm not sure how bad this is in
> > practice. We could add a subsequent performance bar below which we
> > guess "emulated".
>
> Nah, I don't really think that that is required.
>
> > This probably matches what usermode will use that
> > value for anyway (a synonym for "very slow"), but it's basically the
> > same problem with reversed polarity (we mislabel some slow systems as
> > emulated). I'm open to suggestions!
>
> I think I just agreed with you, give or take. If it is fast, say fast.
> If it is slow, we say it is slow. If we know it is emulated, then we can
> report it being emulated. Is it too late to remove the "hardware" from
> the syscall documentation, IOW s/supported in hardware/supported/?
>
> Please actually describe the assumptions/subtleties in the commit
> message though, so that the rationale for stuff is in the history :)

Will do. I pondered an alternative of creating a "gray zone" where if
misaligned words and bytes come out close to each other (which I don't
expect them to), we leave the setting of UNKNOWN alone. But I'm not
sure this really solves anything, it just moves the "waffle point"
around, so I couldn't convince myself it was valuable.
-Evan

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