Message-ID: <CAAhV-H5tYV=ezPY_O7c=sd3DULB6BjoiYnw9nE2EzDFaBHcKPw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:12:49 +0800
From:   Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@...nel.org>
To:     Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org>
Cc:     paulmck@...nel.org, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Z qiang <qiang.zhang1211@...il.com>,
        Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@...ngson.cn>,
        Frederic Weisbecker <frederic@...nel.org>,
        Neeraj Upadhyay <quic_neeraju@...cinc.com>,
        Josh Triplett <josh@...htriplett.org>,
        Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
        John Stultz <jstultz@...gle.com>,
        Stephen Boyd <sboyd@...nel.org>,
        Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
        Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@...icios.com>,
        Lai Jiangshan <jiangshanlai@...il.com>,
        Sergey Senozhatsky <senozhatsky@...omium.org>,
        rcu@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        stable@...r.kernel.org, Binbin Zhou <zhoubinbin@...ngson.cn>
Subject: Re: [PATCH V4 2/2] rcu: Update jiffies in rcu_cpu_stall_reset()

Hi, Joel,

On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 10:51 PM Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 10:37 AM Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@...nel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 10:02 PM Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@...nel.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 01:33:48PM +0000, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 03:47:12AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Aug 27, 2023 at 06:11:40PM -0400, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, Aug 27, 2023 at 1:51 AM Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@...nel.org> wrote:
> > > > > > [..]
> > > > > > > > > > > The only way I know of to avoid these sorts of false positives is for
> > > > > > > > > > > the user to manually suppress all timeouts (perhaps using a kernel-boot
> > > > > > > > > > > parameter for your early-boot case), do the gdb work, and then unsuppress
> > > > > > > > > > > all stalls.  Even that won't work for networking, because the other
> > > > > > > > > > > system's clock will be running throughout.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In other words, from what I know now, there is no perfect solution.
> > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, there are sharp limits to the complexity of any solution that
> > > > > > > > > > > I will be willing to accept.
> > > > > > > > > > I think the simplest solution is (I hope Joel will not angry):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not angry at all, just want to help. ;-). The problem is the 300*HZ solution
> > > > > > > > > will also effect the VM workloads which also do a similar reset.  Allow me few
> > > > > > > > > days to see if I can take a shot at fixing it slightly differently. I am
> > > > > > > > > trying Paul's idea of setting jiffies at a later time. I think it is doable.
> > > > > > > > > I think the advantage of doing this is it will make stall detection more
> > > > > > > > > robust in this face of these gaps in jiffie update. And that solution does
> > > > > > > > > not even need us to rely on ktime (and all the issues that come with that).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I wrote a patch similar to Paul's idea and sent it out for review, the
> > > > > > > > advantage being it purely is based on jiffies. Could you try it out
> > > > > > > > and let me know?
> > > > > > > If you can cc my gmail <chenhuacai@...il.com>, that could be better.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure, will do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have read your patch, maybe the counter (nr_fqs_jiffies_stall)
> > > > > > > should be atomic_t and we should use atomic operation to decrement its
> > > > > > > value. Because rcu_gp_fqs() can be run concurrently, and we may miss
> > > > > > > the (nr_fqs == 1) condition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think so. There is only 1 place where RMW operation happens
> > > > > > and rcu_gp_fqs() is called only from the GP kthread. So a concurrent
> > > > > > RMW (and hence a lost update) is not possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Huacai, is your concern that the gdb user might have created a script
> > > > > (for example, printing a variable or two, then automatically continuing),
> > > > > so that breakpoints could happen in quick successsion, such that the
> > > > > second breakpoint might run concurrently with rcu_gp_fqs()?
> > > > >
> > > > > If this can really happen, the point that Joel makes is a good one, namely
> > > > > that rcu_gp_fqs() is single-threaded and (absent rcutorture) runs only
> > > > > once every few jiffies.  And gdb breakpoints, even with scripting, should
> > > > > also be rather rare.  So if this is an issue, a global lock should do the
> > > > > trick, perhaps even one of the existing locks in the rcu_state structure.
> > > > > The result should then be just as performant/scalable and a lot simpler
> > > > > than use of atomics.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Paul and Huacai, also I was thinking in the event of such concurrent
> > > > breakpoint stalling jiffies updates but GP thread / rcu_gp_fqs() chugging
> > > > along, we could also make the patch more robust for such a situation as
> > > > follows (diff on top of previous patch [1]). Thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > Also if someone sets a breakpoint right after the "nr_fqs == 1" check, then
> > > > they are kind of asking for it anyway since the GP kthread getting
> > > > stalled is an actual reason for RCU stalls (infact rcutorture has a test mode
> > > > for it even :P) and as such the false-positive may not be that false. ;-)
> > >
> > > [Paul]
> > > That would indeed be asking for it.  But then again, they might have set
> > > a breakpoint elsewhere that had the unintended side-effect of catching
> > > the RCU grace-period kthread right at that point.
> > >
> > > If that isn't something we are worried about, your original is fine.
> > > If it is something we are worried about, I recommend learning from my
> > > RCU CPU stall warning experiences and just using a lock.  ;-)
>
> This sounds good to me.
>
> > [Huacai]
> > I also think the original patch should be OK, but I have another
> > question: what will happen if the current GP ends before
> > nr_fqs_jiffies_stall reaches zero?
>
> Nothing should happen. Stall detection only happens when a GP is in
> progress. If a new GP starts, it resets nr_fqs_jiffies_stall.
>
> Or can you elaborate your concern more?
OK, I will test your patch these days. Maybe putting
nr_fqs_jiffies_stall before jiffies_force_qs is better, because I
think putting an 'int' between two 'long' is wasting space. :)

Huacai

>
> Thanks.

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