Message-ID: <67d07ab7-8202-4bbd-88d9-587707bd58b1@bytedance.com>
Date:   Sat, 16 Sep 2023 22:03:36 +0800
From:   Chuyi Zhou <zhouchuyi@...edance.com>
To:     Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@...il.com>
Cc:     bpf@...r.kernel.org, ast@...nel.org, daniel@...earbox.net,
        andrii@...nel.org, martin.lau@...nel.org, tj@...nel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next v2 3/6] bpf: Introduce process open coded
 iterator kfuncs

Hello.

在 2023/9/16 04:37, Andrii Nakryiko 写道:
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 8:03 AM Chuyi Zhou <zhouchuyi@...edance.com> wrote:
>> 在 2023/9/15 07:26, Andrii Nakryiko 写道:
>>> On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 12:02 AM Chuyi Zhou <zhouchuyi@...edance.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This patch adds kfuncs bpf_iter_process_{new,next,destroy} which allow
>>>> creation and manipulation of struct bpf_iter_process in open-coded iterator
>>>> style. BPF programs can use these kfuncs or through bpf_for_each macro to
>>>> iterate all processes in the system.
>>>>
[...cut...]
>>>
>>> Few high level thoughts. I think it would be good to follow
>>> SEC("iter/task") naming and approach. Open-coded iterators in many
>>> ways are in-kernel counterpart to iterator programs, so keeping them
>>> close enough within reason is useful for knowledge transfer.
>>>
>>> SEC("iter/task") allows to:
>>> a) iterate all threads in the system
>>> b) iterate all threads for a given TGID
>>> c) it also allows to "iterate" a single thread or process, but that's
>>> a bit less relevant for in-kernel iterator, but we can still support
>>> them, why not?
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if it supports iterating all processes (as in group
>>> leaders of each task group) in the system, but if it's possible I
>>> think we should support it at least for open-coded iterator, seems
>>> like a very useful functionality.
>>>
>>> So to that end, let's design a small set of input arguments for
>>> bpf_iter_process_new() that would allow to specify this as flags +
>>> either (optional) struct task_struct * pointer to represent
>>> task/process or PID/TGID.
>>>
>>
>> Another concern from Alexei was the readability of the API of open-coded
>> in BPF Program[1].
>>
>> bpf_for_each(task, curr) is straightforward. Users can easily understand
>> that this API does the same thing as 'for_each_process' in kernel.
> 
> In general, users might have no idea about for_each_process macro in
> the kernel, so I don't find this particular argument very convincing.
> 
> We can add a separate set of iterator kfuncs for every useful
> combination of conditions, of course, but it's a double-edged sword.
> Needing to use a different iterator just to specify a different
> direction of cgroup iteration (from the example you referred in [1])
> also means that it's now harder to write some generic function that
> needs to do something for all cgroups matching some criteria where the
> order might be coming as an argument.
> 
> Similarly for task iterators. It's not hard to imagine some processing
> that can be equivalently done per thread or per process in the system,
> or on each thread of the process, depending on some conditions or
> external configuration. Having to do three different
> bpf_for_each(task_xxx, task, ...) for this seems suboptimal. If the
> nature of the thing that is iterated over is the same, and it's just a
> different set of filters to specify which subset of those items should
> be iterated, I think it's better to try to stick to the same iterator
> with few simple arguments. IMO, of course, there is no objectively
> best approach.
> 
>>
>> However, if we keep the approach of SEC("iter/task")
>>
>> enum ITER_ITEM {
>>          ITER_TASK,
>>          ITER_THREAD,
>> }
>>
>> __bpf_kfunc int bpf_iter_task_new(struct bpf_iter_process *it, struct
>> task_struct *group_task, enum ITER_ITEM type)
>>
>> the API have to chang:
>>
>>
>> bpf_for_each(task, curr, NULL, ITERATE_TASK) // iterate all process in
>> the  system
>> bpf_for_each(task, curr, group_leader, ITERATE_THREAD) // iterate all
>> thread of group_leader
>> bpf_for_each(task, curr, NULL, ITERATE_THREAD) //iterate all threads of
>> all the process in the system
>>
>> Useres may guess what are this API actually doing....
> 
> I'd expect users to consult documentation before trying to use an
> unfamiliar cutting-edge functionality. So let's try to keep
> documentation clear and up to the point. Extra flag argument doesn't
> seem to be a big deal.

Thanks for your suggestion!

Before we begin working on the next version, I have outlined a detailed 
API design here:

1.task_iter

It will be used to iterate process/threads like SEC("iter/task"). Here 
we should better to follow the naming and approach SEC("iter/task"):

enum {
	ITERATE_PROCESS,
	ITERATE_THREAD,
}

__bpf_kfunc int bpf_iter_task_new(struct bpf_iter_task *it, struct 
task_struct *task, int flag);

If we want to iterate all processes in the system, the iteration will 
start from the *task* which is passed from user.(since process in the 
system are connected through a linked list)

Additionally, the *task* can allow users to specify iterating all 
threads within a task group.

SEC("xxx")
int xxxx(void *ctx)
{
	struct task_struct *pos;
	struct task_struct *cur_task = bpf_get_current_task_btf();

	bpf_rcu_read_lock();

	// iterating all process in the system start from cur_task
	bpf_for_each(task, pos, cur_task, ITERATE_PROCESS) {
		
	}

	// iterate all thread belongs to cur_task group.
	bpf_for_each(task, pos, cur_task, ITERATE_THREAD) {
	
	}
	
	bpf_rcu_read_unlock();
	return 0;
}

Iterating all thread of each process is great（ITERATE_ALL）. But maybe 
let's break it down step by step and implement 
ITERATE_PROCESS/ITERATE_THREAD first? (I'm little worried about the cpu 
overhead of ITERATE_ALL, since we are doing a heavy job in BPF Prog)

I wanted to reuse BPF_TASK_ITER_ALL/BPF_TASK_ITER_TID/BPF_TASK_ITER_TGID 
insted of new enums like ITERATE_PROCESS/ITERATE_THREAD. But it seems 
necessary. In BPF Prog, we usually operate task_struct directly instead 
of pid/tgid. It's a little weird to use 
BPF_TASK_ITER_TID/BPF_TASK_ITER_TGID here:

bpf_for_each(task, pos, cur_task, BPF_TASK_ITER_TID) {
}

On the other hand, 
BPF_TASK_ITER_ALL/BPF_TASK_ITER_TID/BPF_TASK_ITER_TGID are inner flags 
that are hidden from the users.
Exposing ITERATE_PROCESS/ITERATE_THREAD will not cause confusion to user.


2. css_iter.

css_iter will be used to:
(1) iterating subsystem, like 
for_each_mem_cgroup_tree/cpuset_for_each_descendant_pre in kernel.
(2) iterating cgroup. (patch-6's selfetest has a basic example)

css(cgroup_subsys_state) is more fundamental than struct cgroup. I think 
we'd better operating css rather than cgroup, since it's can be hard for 
cgroup_iter to achive (2). So here we keep the name of "css_iter", 
BPF_CGROUP_ITER_DESCENDANTS_PRE/BPF_CGROUP_ITER_DESCENDANTS_POST/BPF_CGROUP_ITER_ANCESTORS_UP 
can be reused.


__bpf_kfunc int bpf_iter_css_new(struct bpf_iter_css *it,
		struct cgroup_subsys_state *root, unsigned int flag)

bpf_for_each(css, root, BPF_CGROUP_ITER_DESCENDANTS_PRE)

Thanks.

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