Message-ID: <20230920124823.ghl6crb5sh4x2pmt@quack3>
Date:   Wed, 20 Sep 2023 14:48:23 +0200
From:   Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>
To:     Jeff Layton <jlayton@...nel.org>
Cc:     Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>, Christian Brauner <brauner@...nel.org>,
        Bruno Haible <bruno@...sp.org>,
        Xi Ruoyao <xry111@...uxfromscratch.org>, bug-gnulib@....org,
        Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
        Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@...nel.org>,
        Latchesar Ionkov <lucho@...kov.net>,
        Dominique Martinet <asmadeus@...ewreck.org>,
        Christian Schoenebeck <linux_oss@...debyte.com>,
        David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
        Marc Dionne <marc.dionne@...istor.com>,
        Chris Mason <clm@...com>, Josef Bacik <josef@...icpanda.com>,
        David Sterba <dsterba@...e.com>, Xiubo Li <xiubli@...hat.com>,
        Ilya Dryomov <idryomov@...il.com>,
        Jan Harkes <jaharkes@...cmu.edu>, coda@...cmu.edu,
        Tyler Hicks <code@...icks.com>, Gao Xiang <xiang@...nel.org>,
        Chao Yu <chao@...nel.org>, Yue Hu <huyue2@...lpad.com>,
        Jeffle Xu <jefflexu@...ux.alibaba.com>,
        Namjae Jeon <linkinjeon@...nel.org>,
        Sungjong Seo <sj1557.seo@...sung.com>,
        Jan Kara <jack@...e.com>, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@....edu>,
        Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@...ger.ca>,
        Jaegeuk Kim <jaegeuk@...nel.org>,
        OGAWA Hirofumi <hirofumi@...l.parknet.co.jp>,
        Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...redi.hu>,
        Bo b Peterson <rpeterso@...hat.com>,
        Andreas Gruenbacher <agruenba@...hat.com>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        Tejun Heo <tj@...nel.org>,
        Trond Myklebust <trond.myklebust@...merspace.com>,
        Anna Schumaker <anna@...nel.org>,
        Konstantin Komarov <almaz.alexandrovich@...agon-software.com>,
        Mark Fasheh <mark@...heh.com>,
        Joel Becker <jlbec@...lplan.org>,
        Joseph Qi <joseph.qi@...ux.alibaba.com>,
        Mike Marshall <hubcap@...ibond.com>,
        Martin Brandenburg <martin@...ibond.com>,
        Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@...nel.org>,
        Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>,
        Iurii Zaikin <yzaikin@...gle.com>,
        Steve French <sfrench@...ba.org>,
        Paulo Alcantara <pc@...guebit.com>,
        Ronnie Sahlberg <ronniesahlberg@...il.com>,
        Shyam Prasad N <sprasad@...rosoft.com>,
        Tom Talpey <tom@...pey.com>,
        Sergey Senozhatsky <senozhatsky@...omium.org>,
        Richard Weinberger <richard@....at>,
        Hans de Goede <hdegoede@...hat.com>,
        Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Amir Goldstein <l@...il.com>,
        "Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@...nel.org>,
        Benjamin Coddington <bcodding@...hat.com>,
        linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        v9fs@...ts.linux.dev, linux-afs@...ts.infradead.org,
        linux-btrfs@...r.kernel.org, ceph-devel@...r.kernel.org,
        codalist@...a.cs.cmu.edu, ecryptfs@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-erofs@...ts.ozlabs.org, linux-ext4@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-f2fs-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net, cluster-devel@...hat.com,
        linux-nfs@...r.kernel.org, ntfs3@...ts.linux.dev,
        ocfs2-devel@...ts.linux.dev, devel@...ts.orangefs.org,
        linux-cifs@...r.kernel.org, samba-technical@...ts.samba.org,
        linux-mtd@...ts.infradead.org, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        linux-unionfs@...r.kernel.org, linux-xfs@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 12/13] ext4: switch to multigrain timestamps

On Wed 20-09-23 06:35:18, Jeff Layton wrote:
> On Wed, 2023-09-20 at 12:17 +0200, Jan Kara wrote:
> > If I were a sysadmin, I'd rather opt for something like
> > finegrained timestamps + lazytime (if I needed the finegrained timestamps
> > functionality). That should avoid the IO overhead of finegrained timestamps
> > as well and I'd know I can have problems with timestamps only after a
> > system crash.
> 
> > I've just got another idea how we could solve the problem: Couldn't we
> > always just report coarsegrained timestamp to userspace and provide access
> > to finegrained value only to NFS which should know what it's doing?
> > 
> 
> I think that'd be hard. First of all, where would we store the second
> timestamp? We can't just truncate the fine-grained ones to come up with
> a coarse-grained one. It might also be confusing having nfsd and local
> filesystems present different attributes.

So what I had in mind (and I definitely miss all the NFS intricacies so the
idea may be bogus) was that inode->i_ctime would be maintained exactly as
is now. There will be new (kernel internal at least for now) STATX flag
STATX_MULTIGRAIN_TS. fill_mg_cmtime() will return timestamp truncated to
sb->s_time_gran unless STATX_MULTIGRAIN_TS is set. Hence unless you set
STATX_MULTIGRAIN_TS, there is no difference in the returned timestamps
compared to the state before multigrain timestamps were introduced. With
STATX_MULTIGRAIN_TS we return full precision timestamp as stored in the
inode. Then NFS in fh_fill_pre_attrs() and fh_fill_post_attrs() needs to
make sure STATX_MULTIGRAIN_TS is set when calling vfs_getattr() to get
multigrain time.

I agree nfsd may now be presenting slightly different timestamps than user
is able to see with stat(2) directly on the filesystem. But is that a
problem? Essentially it is a similar solution as the mgtime mount option
but now sysadmin doesn't have to decide on filesystem mount how to report
timestamps but the stat caller knowingly opts into possibly inconsistent
(among files) but high precision timestamps. And in the particular NFS
usecase where stat is called all the time anyway, timestamps will likely
even be consistent among files.

								Honza
-- 
Jan Kara <jack@...e.com>
SUSE Labs, CR

Powered by blists - more mailing lists