Message-ID: <BL0PR12MB4673059A5AC97F648CD00FB1EAD3A@BL0PR12MB4673.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Date:   Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:44:18 +0000
From:   "Sridharan, Vilas" <Vilas.Sridharan@....com>
To:     Jonathan Cameron <Jonathan.Cameron@...wei.com>
CC:     "Duran, Leo" <leo.duran@....com>,
        "Ghannam, Yazen" <Yazen.Ghannam@....com>,
        David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>,
        Jiaqi Yan <jiaqiyan@...gle.com>,
        "Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@...el.com>,
        "Grimm, Jon" <Jon.Grimm@....com>,
        "dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com" <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        "linuxarm@...wei.com" <linuxarm@...wei.com>,
        "shiju.jose@...wei.com" <shiju.jose@...wei.com>,
        "linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org" <linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-mm@...ck.org" <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "rafael@...nel.org" <rafael@...nel.org>,
        "lenb@...nel.org" <lenb@...nel.org>,
        "naoya.horiguchi@....com" <naoya.horiguchi@....com>,
        "james.morse@....com" <james.morse@....com>,
        "david@...hat.com" <david@...hat.com>,
        "jthoughton@...gle.com" <jthoughton@...gle.com>,
        "somasundaram.a@....com" <somasundaram.a@....com>,
        "erdemaktas@...gle.com" <erdemaktas@...gle.com>,
        "pgonda@...gle.com" <pgonda@...gle.com>,
        "duenwen@...gle.com" <duenwen@...gle.com>,
        "mike.malvestuto@...el.com" <mike.malvestuto@...el.com>,
        "gthelen@...gle.com" <gthelen@...gle.com>,
        "tanxiaofei@...wei.com" <tanxiaofei@...wei.com>,
        "prime.zeng@...ilicon.com" <prime.zeng@...ilicon.com>,
        "kangkang.shen@...urewei.com" <kangkang.shen@...urewei.com>,
        "wanghuiqiang@...wei.com" <wanghuiqiang@...wei.com>
Subject: RE: [RFC PATCH 2/9] memory: scrub: sysfs: Add Documentation entries
 for set of scrub attributes

[AMD Official Use Only - General]

> Are you thinking a code first proposal?  If you think doing this through the standards body is a good idea then perhaps message back here so we know when to look for further proposals in mantis.

I am not super familiar with what you mean by 'code first proposal', but we are thinking about crafting an ECN (or a set of ECNs) for ACPI, that will be made public through ACPI's normal process.

    -Vilas

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Cameron <Jonathan.Cameron@...wei.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 11:02 AM
To: Sridharan, Vilas <Vilas.Sridharan@....com>
Cc: Duran, Leo <leo.duran@....com>; Ghannam, Yazen <Yazen.Ghannam@....com>; David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>; Jiaqi Yan <jiaqiyan@...gle.com>; Luck, Tony <tony.luck@...el.com>; Grimm, Jon <Jon.Grimm@....com>; dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com; linuxarm@...wei.com; shiju.jose@...wei.com; linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org; linux-mm@...ck.org; linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org; rafael@...nel.org; lenb@...nel.org; naoya.horiguchi@....com; james.morse@....com; david@...hat.com; jthoughton@...gle.com; somasundaram.a@....com; erdemaktas@...gle.com; pgonda@...gle.com; duenwen@...gle.com; mike.malvestuto@...el.com; gthelen@...gle.com; tanxiaofei@...wei.com; prime.zeng@...ilicon.com; kangkang.shen@...urewei.com; wanghuiqiang@...wei.com
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/9] memory: scrub: sysfs: Add Documentation entries for set of scrub attributes

Caution: This message originated from an External Source. Use proper caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding.


On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:41:19 +0000
"Sridharan, Vilas" <Vilas.Sridharan@....com> wrote:

> [AMD Official Use Only - General]
>
> + Leo and Yazen

Hi All.

+ Kangkang and Wanghuiqiang (Henson),

>
> We looked at RASF and RAS2 again. We don't think RASF is worth fixing. Our preference is to coalesce around RAS2 because we think it can be extended in interesting ways.

Absolutely agree. I'm guessing RAS2 was previous go at fixing RASF though I haven't done the archaeology.

>
> The patrol scrub function probably needs some changes to be more general across different types of hardware (there are some baked-in assumptions that don't always hold true).

Agreed. One aspect I'd love to see improved is expanded discoverability of what the hardware can do.

>
> We will look at some spec changes to fix the patrol scrub function, and we are going to start thinking about other functions that can be added to RAS2.

Feel free to reach out if you want some early input on this. Are you thinking a code first proposal?  If you think doing this through the standards body is a good idea then perhaps message back here so we know when to look for further proposals in mantis.

Thanks,

Jonathan
>
>     -Vilas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Cameron <Jonathan.Cameron@...wei.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 12:36 PM
> To: Sridharan, Vilas <Vilas.Sridharan@....com>
> Cc: David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>; Jiaqi Yan
> <jiaqiyan@...gle.com>; Luck, Tony <tony.luck@...el.com>; Grimm, Jon
> <Jon.Grimm@....com>; dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com; linuxarm@...wei.com;
> shiju.jose@...wei.com; linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org; linux-mm@...ck.org;
> linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org; rafael@...nel.org; lenb@...nel.org;
> naoya.horiguchi@....com; james.morse@....com; david@...hat.com;
> jthoughton@...gle.com; somasundaram.a@....com; erdemaktas@...gle.com;
> pgonda@...gle.com; duenwen@...gle.com; mike.malvestuto@...el.com;
> gthelen@...gle.com; tanxiaofei@...wei.com; prime.zeng@...ilicon.com
> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/9] memory: scrub: sysfs: Add Documentation
> entries for set of scrub attributes
>
> Caution: This message originated from an External Source. Use proper caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding.
>
>
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 13:06:53 +0000
> "Sridharan, Vilas" <Vilas.Sridharan@....com> wrote:
>
> > [AMD Official Use Only - General]
> >
> > I do not believe AMD has implemented RASF/RAS2 at all.
> >
> > We are looking at it, but our initial impression is that it is
> > insufficiently flexible for general use. (Not just for this feature,
> > but for others in the future.)
> >
> >     -Vilas
>
> Hi Vilas,
>
> So obvious question is - worth fixing?
>
> I'm not particularly keen to see 10+ different ways of meeting this requirement.
>
> Probably not too bad if that's 10+ drivers implementing the same userspace ABI, but definitely don't want 10 drivers and 10 ABIs.
>
> Jonathan
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jonathan Cameron <Jonathan.Cameron@...wei.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 9:02 AM
> > To: David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>
> > Cc: Jiaqi Yan <jiaqiyan@...gle.com>; Luck, Tony
> > <tony.luck@...el.com>; Grimm, Jon <Jon.Grimm@....com>;
> > dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com; Sridharan, Vilas
> > <Vilas.Sridharan@....com>; linuxarm@...wei.com;
> > shiju.jose@...wei.com; linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org;
> > linux-mm@...ck.org; linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org; rafael@...nel.org;
> > lenb@...nel.org; naoya.horiguchi@....com; james.morse@....com;
> > david@...hat.com; jthoughton@...gle.com; somasundaram.a@....com;
> > erdemaktas@...gle.com; pgonda@...gle.com; duenwen@...gle.com;
> > mike.malvestuto@...el.com; gthelen@...gle.com;
> > tanxiaofei@...wei.com; prime.zeng@...ilicon.com
> > Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/9] memory: scrub: sysfs: Add Documentation
> > entries for set of scrub attributes
> >
> > Caution: This message originated from an External Source. Use proper caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:18:12 -0700 (PDT) David Rientjes
> > <rientjes@...gle.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 27 Sep 2023, Jiaqi Yan wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > 1. I am not aware of any chip/platform hardware that
> > > > > > implemented the hw ps part defined in ACPI RASF/RAS2 spec.
> > > > > > So I am curious what the RAS experts from different hardware
> > > > > > vendors think about this. For example, Tony and Dave from
> > > > > > Intel, Jon and Vilas from AMD. Is there any hardware
> > > > > > platform (if allowed to disclose) that implemented ACPI
> > > > > > RASF/RAS2? If so, will vendors continue to support the
> > > > > > control of patrol scrubber using the ACPI spec? If not (as Tony said in [1], will the vendor consider starting some future platform?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we are unlikely to get the vendor support, creating this
> > > > > > ACPI specific sysfs API (and the driver implementations) in
> > > > > > Linux seems to have limited meaning.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a bit of a chicken and egg problem here. Until there
> > > > > is reasonable support in kernel (or it looks like there will
> > > > > be), BIOS teams push back on a requirement to add the tables.
> > > > > I'd encourage no one to bother with RASF - RAS2 is much less
> > > > > ambiguous.
> > > >
> > > > Here mainly to re-ping folks from Intel (Tony and Dave)  and AMD
> > > > (Jon and Vilas) for your opinion on RAS2.
> > > >
> > >
> > > We'll need to know from vendors, ideally at minimum from both
> > > Intel and AMD, whether RAS2 is the long-term vision here.  Nothing
> > > is set in stone, of course, but deciding whether RAS2 is the
> > > standard that we should be rallying around will help to guide
> > > future development including in the kernel.
> > >
> > > If RAS2 is insufficient for future use cases or we would need to
> > > support multiple implementations in the kernel for configuring the
> > > patrol scrubber depending on vendor, that's great feedback to have.
> > >
> > > I'd much rather focus on implementing something in the kernel that
> > > we have some clarity about the vendors supporting, especially when
> > > it comes with user visible interfaces, as opposed to something
> > > that may not be used long term.  I think that's a fair ask and
> > > that vendor feedback is required here?
> >
> > Agreed and happy to have feedback from Intel and AMD + all the other CPU vendors who make use of ACPI + all the OEMs who add stuff well beyond what Intel and AMD tell them to :)  I'll just note a lot of the ACPI support in the kernel covers stuff not used on mainstream x86 platforms because they are doing something custom and we didn't want 2 + X custom implementations...
> >
> > Some other interfaces for scrub control (beyond existing embedded ones) will surface in the next few months where RAS2 is not appropriate.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
>

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