Message-ID: <87jzqjecev.fsf@yhuang6-desk2.ccr.corp.intel.com>
Date:   Wed, 15 Nov 2023 14:52:24 +0800
From:   "Huang, Ying" <ying.huang@...el.com>
To:     Huan Yang <link@...o.com>
Cc:     Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>, Tejun Heo <tj@...nel.org>,
        Zefan Li <lizefan.x@...edance.com>,
        Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>,
        "Jonathan Corbet" <corbet@....net>,
        Roman Gushchin <roman.gushchin@...ux.dev>,
        "Shakeel Butt" <shakeelb@...gle.com>,
        Muchun Song <muchun.song@...ux.dev>,
        "Andrew Morton" <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>,
        Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>,
        Kefeng Wang <wangkefeng.wang@...wei.com>,
        Peter Xu <peterx@...hat.com>,
        "Vishal Moola (Oracle)" <vishal.moola@...il.com>,
        Yosry Ahmed <yosryahmed@...gle.com>,
        "Liu Shixin" <liushixin2@...wei.com>,
        Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>, <cgroups@...r.kernel.org>,
        <linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>, <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        <linux-mm@...ck.org>, <opensource.kernel@...o.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/4] Introduce unbalance proactive reclaim

Huan Yang <link@...o.com> writes:

> 在 2023/11/13 16:05, Huang, Ying 写道:
>> Huan Yang <link@...o.com> writes:
>>
>>> 在 2023/11/13 14:10, Huang, Ying 写道:
>>>> Huan Yang <link@...o.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> 在 2023/11/10 20:24, Michal Hocko 写道:
>>>>>> On Fri 10-11-23 11:48:49, Huan Yang wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> Also, When the application enters the foreground, the startup speed
>>>>>>> may be slower. Also trace show that here are a lot of block I/O.
>>>>>>> (usually 1000+ IO count and 200+ms IO Time) We usually observe very
>>>>>>> little block I/O caused by zram refault.(read: 1698.39MB/s, write:
>>>>>>> 995.109MB/s), usually, it is faster than random disk reads.(read:
>>>>>>> 48.1907MB/s write: 49.1654MB/s). This test by zram-perf and I change a
>>>>>>> little to test UFS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Therefore, if the proactive reclamation encounters many file pages,
>>>>>>> the application may become slow when it is opened.
>>>>>> OK, this is an interesting information. From the above it seems that
>>>>>> storage based IO refaults are order of magnitude more expensive than
>>>>>> swap (zram in this case). That means that the memory reclaim should
>>>>>> _in general_ prefer anonymous memory reclaim over refaulted page cache,
>>>>>> right? Or is there any reason why "frozen" applications are any
>>>>>> different in this case?
>>>>> Frozen applications mean that the application process is no longer active,
>>>>> so once its private anonymous page data is swapped out, the anonymous
>>>>> pages will not be refaulted until the application becomes active again.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the contrary, page caches are usually shared. Even if the
>>>>> application that
>>>>> first read the file is no longer active, other processes may still
>>>>> read the file.
>>>>> Therefore, it is not reasonable to use the proactive reclamation
>>>>> interface to
>>>>> reclaim page caches without considering memory pressure.
>>>> No.  Not all page caches are shared.  For example, the page caches used
>>>> for use-once streaming IO.  And, they should be reclaimed firstly.
>>> Yes, but this part is done very well in MGLRU and does not require our
>>> intervention.
>>> Moreover, the reclaim speed of clean files is very fast, but compared to it,
>>> the reclaim speed of anonymous pages is a bit slower.
>>>> So, your solution may work good for your specific use cases, but it's
>>> Yes, this approach is not universal.
>>>> not a general solution.  Per my understanding, you want to reclaim only
>>>> private pages to avoid impact the performance of other applications.
>>>> Privately mapped anonymous pages is easy to be identified (And I suggest
>>>> that you can find a way to avoid reclaim shared mapped anonymous pages).
>>> Yes, it is not good to reclaim shared anonymous pages, and it needs to be
>>> identified. In the future, we will consider how to filter them.
>>> Thanks.
>>>> There's some heuristics to identify use-once page caches in reclaiming
>>>> code.  Why doesn't it work for your situation?
>>> As mentioned above, the default reclaim algorithm is suitable for recycling
>>> file pages, but we do not need to intervene in it.
>>> Direct reclaim or kswapd of these use-once file pages is very fast and will
>>> not cause lag or other effects.
>>> Our overall goal is to actively and reasonably compress unused anonymous
>>> pages based on certain strategies, in order to increase available memory to
>>> a certain extent, avoid lag, and prevent applications from being killed.
>>> Therefore, using the proactive reclaim interface, combined with LRU
>>> algorithm
>>> and reclaim tendencies, is a good way to achieve our goal.
>> If so, why can't you just use the proactive reclaim with some large
>> enough swappiness?  That will reclaim use-once page caches and compress
> This works very well for proactive memory reclaim that is only
> executed once.
> However, considering that we need to perform proactive reclaim in batches,
> suppose that only 5% of the use-once page cache in this memcg can be
> reclaimed,
> but we need to call proactive memory reclaim step by step, such as 5%,
> 10%, 15% ... 100%.
> Then, the page cache may be reclaimed due to the balancing adjustment
> of reclamation,
> even if the 5% of use-once pages are reclaimed. We may still touch on
> shared file pages.
> (If I misunderstood anything, please correct me.)

If the proactive reclaim amount is less than the size of anonymous
pages, I think that you are safe.  For example, if the size of anonymous
pages is 100MB, the size of use-once file pages is 10MB, the size of
shared file pages is 20MB.  Then if you reclaim 100MB proactively with
swappiness=200, you will reclaim 10MB use-once file pages and 90MB
anonymous pages.  In the next time, if you reclaim 10MB proactively, you
will still not reclaim shared file pages.

> We previously used the two values of modifying swappiness to 200 and 0
> to adjust reclaim
> tendencies. However, the debug interface showed that some file pages
> were reclaimed,
> and after being actively reclaimed, some applications and the reopened
> applications that were
> reclaimed had some block IO and startup lag.

If so, please research why use-once file page heuristics not work and
try to fix it or raise the issue.

> This way of having incomplete control over the process maybe is not
> suitable for proactive memory
> reclaim. Instead, with an proactive reclaim interface with tendencies,
> we can issue a
> 5% page cache trim once and then gradually reclaim anonymous pages.
>> anonymous pages.  So, more applications can be kept in memory before
>> passive reclaiming or killing background applications?

--
Best Regards,
Huang, Ying

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