Message-ID: <ZWo7ncdgPsj6rP7_@P9FQF9L96D.corp.robot.car>
Date:   Fri, 1 Dec 2023 12:01:33 -0800
From:   Roman Gushchin <roman.gushchin@...ux.dev>
To:     Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>
Cc:     Kent Overstreet <kent.overstreet@...ux.dev>,
        Qi Zheng <zhengqi.arch@...edance.com>,
        Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>,
        Muchun Song <muchun.song@...ux.dev>,
        Linux-MM <linux-mm@...ck.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/7] mm: shrinker: Add a .to_text() method for shrinkers

On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 12:18:44PM +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 11:01:23AM -0800, Roman Gushchin wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 10:21:49PM -0500, Kent Overstreet wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 11:09:42AM +0800, Qi Zheng wrote:
> > > > For non-bcachefs developers, who knows what those statistics mean?
> 
> > Ok, a simple question then:
> > why can't you dump /proc/slabinfo after the OOM?
> 
> Taken to it's logical conclusion, we arrive at:
> 
> 	OOM-kill doesn't need to output anything at all except for
> 	what it killed because we can dump
> 	/proc/{mem,zone,vmalloc,buddy,slab}info after the OOM....
> 
> As it is, even asking such a question shows that you haven't looked
> at the OOM kill output for a long time - it already reports the slab
> cache usage information for caches that are reclaimable.
> 
> That is, if too much accounted slab cache based memory consumption
> is detected at OOM-kill, it will calldump_unreclaimable_slab() to
> dump all the SLAB_RECLAIM_ACCOUNT caches (i.e. those with shrinkers)
> to the console as part of the OOM-kill output.

You are right, I missed that, partially because most of OOM's I had to deal
with recently were memcg OOM's.

This changes my perspective at Kent's patches, if we dump this information
already, it might be not a bad idea to do it nicer. So I take my words back
here.

> 
> The problem Kent is trying to address is that this output *isn't
> sufficient to debug shrinker based memory reclaim issues*. It hasn't
> been for a long time, and so we've all got our own special debug
> patches and methods for checking that shrinkers are doing what they
> are supposed to. Kent is trying to formalise one of the more useful
> general methods for exposing that internal information when OOM
> occurs...
> 
> Indeed, I can think of several uses for a shrinker->to_text() output
> that we simply cannot do right now.
> 
> Any shrinker that does garbage collection on something that is not a
> pure slab cache (e.g. xfs buffer cache, xfs inode gc subsystem,
> graphics memory allocators, binder, etc) has no visibility of the
> actuall memory being used by the subsystem in the OOM-kill output.
> This information isn't in /proc/slabinfo, it's not accounted by a
> SLAB_RECLAIM_ACCOUNT cache, and it's not accounted by anything in
> the core mm statistics.
> 
> e.g. How does anyone other than a XFS expert know that the 500k of
> active xfs_buf handles in the slab cache actually pins 15GB of
> cached metadata allocated directly from the page allocator, not just
> the 150MB of slab cache the handles take up?
> 
> Another example is that an inode can pin lots of heap memory (e.g.
> for in-memory extent lists) and that may not be freeable until the
> inode is reclaimed. So while the slab cache might not be excesively
> large, we might have an a million inodes with a billion cumulative
> extents cached in memory and it is the heap memory consumed by the
> cached extents that is consuming the 30GB of "missing" kernel memory
> that is causing OOM-kills to occur.
> 
> How is a user or developer supposed to know when one of these
> situations has occurred given the current lack of memory usage
> introspection into subsystems?

What would be the proper solution to this problem from your point of view?
What functionality/API mm can provide to make the life of fs developers
better here?

> 
> These are the sorts of situations that shrinker->to_text() would
> allow us to enumerate when it is necessary (i.e. at OOM-kill). At
> any other time, it just doesn't matter, but when we're at OOM having
> a mechanism to report somewhat accurate subsystem memory consumption
> would be very useful indeed.
> 
> > Unlike anon memory, slab memory (fs caches in particular) should not be heavily
> > affected by killing some userspace task.
> 
> Whether tasks get killed or not is completely irrelevant. The issue
> is that not all memory that is reclaimed by shrinkers is either pure
> slab cache memory or directly accounted as reclaimable to the mm
> subsystem....

My problem with the current OOM reporting infrastructure (and it's a bit an
offtopic here) - it's good for manually looking into these reports, but not
particularly great for automatic collection and analysis at scale.
So this is where I was coming from.

Thanks!

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