Message-ID: <ec547d33-214f-4952-aa33-c271e9edad63@kernel.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:26:35 +0200
From: Oded Gabbay <ogabbay@...nel.org>
To: Cancan Chang <Cancan.Chang@...ogic.com>,
 Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu@...euvizoso.net>
Cc: Jagan Teki <jagan@...eble.ai>, linux-media <linux-media@...r.kernel.org>,
 linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, Dave Airlie
 <airlied@...hat.com>, Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@...ll.ch>
Subject: Re: 回复: kernel.org 6.5.4 , NPU driver, --not support (RFC)

On 12/01/2024 8:23, Cancan Chang wrote:
> Hi Oded,
> 
> Thanks for your code review. I‘m working on cleaning up the OS-wrapper code
> and adjusting driver submodules. I will fix it befor sending patch series.
> 
> On the other hand, is it necessary to covert the driver to use drm? Amlogic's driver
> is not only used in the visual field, but also in voice-related field, and is not very
> compatible with drm. It hardly enjoy the convenience provided by drm. So，can we
> do it like accel/habanalabs which has  almost no use of drm, is this friendly to you?
> 
> thanks.

habanalabs is a special case as it was a couple of years already in 
drivers/misc, and therefore didn't use drm mechanisms at all. If we 
would have upstreamed a new driver, the expectation would have been that 
we would use some drm mechanisms.

I think that the minimal requirement is to use GEM/BOs for memory 
management operations. At least I see both qaic and ivpu use it.

ofc, you need to register your device through drm/accel and use the 
sysfs/debugfs drm infra.

If you have device memory that the user can allocate and map, then you 
will also need to use TTM.

I don't think you need to use drm_sched as it is tightly coupled with 
how GPUs work.

Oded
> 
> ________________________________________
> 发件人: Oded Gabbay <ogabbay@...nel.org>
> 发送时间: 2024年1月11日 21:14
> 收件人: Tomeu Vizoso; Cancan Chang
> 抄送: Jagan Teki; linux-media; linux-kernel; Dave Airlie; Daniel Vetter
> 主题: Re: kernel.org 6.5.4 , NPU driver, --not support (RFC)
> 
> [ EXTERNAL EMAIL ]
> 
> On 11/01/2024 10:04, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>> Hi Oded,
>>
>> Out of curiosity, did you end up taking a look at Amlogic's driver?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tomeu
> Hi Tomeu,
> Yes, I have looked at the driver's code. It was not an in-depth review,
> but I tried to mainly understand the features the driver provide to the
> user and how much complex it is.
> 
>   From what I could see, this is a full-fledged accelerator which
> requires command submission/completion handling, memory management,
> information and debug capabilities and more.
> 
> Therefore, I do think the correct place is in the accel sub-system,
> which will require you to convert the driver to use drm (we can discuss
> exactly what is the level of integration required).
> 
> As I said, I didn't do a full-fledged review, but please note the driver
> has a lot of OS-wrapper code, which is not acceptable in the Linux
> kernel, so you will have to clean all the up.
> 
> Thanks,
> Oded
> 
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2023 at 8:37 AM Cancan Chang <Cancan.Chang@...ogic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oded,
>>>          You can get the driver code from  github link： https://github.com/OldDaddy9/driver
>>>           e.g.  git clone https://github.com/OldDaddy9/driver.git
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> 发件人: Oded Gabbay <ogabbay@...nel.org>
>>> 发送时间: 2023年10月3日 18:52
>>> 收件人: Cancan Chang
>>> 抄送: Jagan Teki; linux-media; linux-kernel; Dave Airlie; Daniel Vetter
>>> 主题: Re: kernel.org 6.5.4 , NPU driver, --not support (RFC)
>>>
>>> [ EXTERNAL EMAIL ]
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 11:16 AM Cancan Chang <Cancan.Chang@...ogic.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> “What happens if you call this again without waiting for the previous
>>>> inference to complete ?”
>>>>      --- There is a work-queue in the driver to manage inference tasks.
>>>>            When two consecutive inference tasks occur, the second inference task will be add to
>>>>            the "pending list". While the previous inference task ends, the second inference task will
>>>>            switch to the "scheduled list", and be executed.
>>>>            Each inference task has an id,  "inferece" and "wait until finish" are paired.
>>>>
>>>>            thanks
>>> Thanks for the clarification.
>>> I'll wait for your driver's code link. It doesn't have to be a patch
>>> series at this point. A link to a git repo is enough.
>>> I just want to do a quick pass.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Oded
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> 发件人: Oded Gabbay <ogabbay@...nel.org>
>>>> 发送时间: 2023年9月28日 15:40
>>>> 收件人: Cancan Chang
>>>> 抄送: Jagan Teki; linux-media; linux-kernel; Dave Airlie; Daniel Vetter
>>>> 主题: Re: kernel.org 6.5.4 , NPU driver, --not support (RFC)
>>>>
>>>> [ EXTERNAL EMAIL ]
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 10:25 AM Cancan Chang <Cancan.Chang@...ogic.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> “Could you please post a link to the driver's source code ?
>>>>> In addition, could you please elaborate which userspace libraries
>>>>> exists that work with your driver ? Are any of them open-source ?”
>>>>> --- We will prepare the adla driver link after the holiday on October 6th.
>>>>>        It's a pity that there is no open-source userspace library.
>>>>>        But you can probably understand it through a workflow, which can be simplified as:
>>>>>        1. create model context
>>>>>             ret = ioctl(context->fd, ADLAK_IOCTL_REGISTER_NETWORK, &desc);
>>>>>        2.  set inputs
>>>>>        3.  inference
>>>>>              ret = ioctl(context->fd, ADLAK_IOCTL_INVOKE, &invoke_dec);
>>>> What happens if you call this again without waiting for the previous
>>>> inference to complete ?
>>>> Oded
>>>>>        4.  wait for the inference to complete
>>>>>              ret = ioctl(context->fd, ADLAK_IOCTL_WAIT_UNTIL_FINISH, &stat_req_desc);
>>>>>        5.  destroy model context
>>>>>              ret = ioctl(context->fd, ADLAK_IOCTL_DESTROY_NETWORK, &submit_del);
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> 发件人: Oded Gabbay <ogabbay@...nel.org>
>>>>> 发送时间: 2023年9月28日 13:28
>>>>> 收件人: Cancan Chang
>>>>> 抄送: Jagan Teki; linux-media; linux-kernel; Dave Airlie; Daniel Vetter
>>>>> 主题: Re: kernel.org 6.5.4 , NPU driver, --not support (RFC)
>>>>>
>>>>> [ EXTERNAL EMAIL ]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 10:01 AM Cancan Chang <Cancan.Chang@...ogic.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Or do you handle one cmd at a time, where the user sends a cmd buffer
>>>>>> to the driver and the driver then submit it by writing to a couple of
>>>>>> registers and polls on some status register until its done, or waits
>>>>>> for an interrupt to mark it as done ?”
>>>>>>     --- yes， user sends a cmd buffer to driver, and driver triggers hardware by writing to register,
>>>>>>           and then, waits for an interrupt to mark it  as done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       My current driver is very different from drm, so I want to know if I have to switch to drm？
>>>>> Could you please post a link to the driver's source code ?
>>>>> In addition, could you please elaborate which userspace libraries
>>>>> exists that work with your driver ? Are any of them open-source ?
>>>>>
>>>>>>       Maybe I can refer to /driver/accel/habanalabs.
>>>>> That's definitely a possibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oded
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> 发件人: Oded Gabbay <ogabbay@...nel.org>
>>>>>> 发送时间: 2023年9月26日 20:54
>>>>>> 收件人: Cancan Chang
>>>>>> 抄送: Jagan Teki; linux-media; linux-kernel; Dave Airlie; Daniel Vetter
>>>>>> 主题: Re: kernel.org 6.5.4 , NPU driver, --not support (RFC)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [ EXTERNAL EMAIL ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 12:29 PM Cancan Chang <Cancan.Chang@...ogic.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your reply from Jagan & Oded.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is very appropritate for my driver to be placed in driver/accel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My accelerator is named ADLA(Amlogic Deep Learning Accelerator).
>>>>>>> It is an IP in SOC,mainly used for neural network models acceleration.
>>>>>>> It will split and compile the neural network model into a private format cmd buffer,
>>>>>>> and submit this cmd buffer to ADLA hardware. It is not programmable device.
>>>>>> What exactly does it mean to "submit this cmd buffer to ADLA hardware" ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does your h/w provides queues for the user/driver to put their
>>>>>> workloads/cmd-bufs on them ? And does it provide some completion queue
>>>>>> to notify when the work is completed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or do you handle one cmd at a time, where the user sends a cmd buffer
>>>>>> to the driver and the driver then submit it by writing to a couple of
>>>>>> registers and polls on some status register until its done, or waits
>>>>>> for an interrupt to mark it as done ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ADLA includes four hardware engines:
>>>>>>> RS engines             : working for the reshape operators
>>>>>>> MAC engines         : working for the convolution operators
>>>>>>> DW engines           : working for the planer & Elementwise operators
>>>>>>> Activation engines : working for activation operators(ReLu,tanh..)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way, my IP is mainly used for SOC, and the current driver registration is through the platform_driver,
>>>>>>> is it necessary to switch to drm?
>>>>>> This probably depends on the answer to my question above. btw, there
>>>>>> are drivers in drm that handle IPs that are part of an SOC, so
>>>>>> platform_driver is supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oded
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>> 发件人: Oded Gabbay <ogabbay@...nel.org>
>>>>>>> 发送时间: 2023年9月22日 23:08
>>>>>>> 收件人: Jagan Teki
>>>>>>> 抄送: Cancan Chang; linux-media; linux-kernel; Dave Airlie; Daniel Vetter
>>>>>>> 主题: Re: kernel.org 6.5.4 , NPU driver, --not support (RFC)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [你通常不会收到来自 ogabbay@...nel.org 的电子邮件。请访问 https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification，以了解这一点为什么很重要]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [ EXTERNAL EMAIL ]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:38 PM Jagan Teki <jagan@...eble.ai> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Sept 2023 at 15:04, Cancan Chang <Cancan.Chang@...ogic.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Media Maintainers:
>>>>>>>>>        Thanks for your attention. Before describing my problem，let me introduce to you what I  mean by NPU.
>>>>>>>>>        NPU is Neural Processing Unit, It is designed for deep learning acceleration, It is also called TPU, APU ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>        The real problems:
>>>>>>>>>         When I was about to upstream my NPU driver codes to linux mainline, i meet two problems:
>>>>>>>>>           1.  According to my research, There is no NPU module path in the linux (base on linux 6.5.4) , I have searched all linux projects and found no organization or comany that has submitted NPU code. Is there a path prepared for NPU driver currently?
>>>>>>>>>           2.   If there is no NPU driver path currently, I am going to put my NPU driver code in the drivers/media/platform/amlogic/ , because my NPU driver belongs to amlogic. and amlogic NPU is mainly used for AI vision applications. Is this plan suitabe for you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I'm correct about the discussion with Oded Gabby before. I think
>>>>>>>> the drivers/accel/ is proper for AI Accelerators including NPU.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> + Oded in case he can comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Jagan.
>>>>>>> Thanks Jagan for adding me to this thread. Adding Dave & Daniel as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, the drivers/accel is the place for Accelerators, mainly for
>>>>>>> AI/Deep-Learning accelerators.
>>>>>>> We currently have 3 drivers there already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The accel subsystem is part of the larger drm subsystem. Basically, to
>>>>>>> get into accel, you need to integrate your driver with the drm at the
>>>>>>> basic level (registering a device, hooking up with the proper
>>>>>>> callbacks). ofc the more you use code from drm, the better.
>>>>>>> You can take a look at the drivers under accel for some examples on
>>>>>>> how to do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could you please describe in a couple of sentences what your
>>>>>>> accelerator does, which engines it contains, how you program it. i.e.
>>>>>>> Is it a fixed-function device where you write to a couple of registers
>>>>>>> to execute workloads, or is it a fully programmable device where you
>>>>>>> load compiled code into it (GPU style) ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For better background on the accel subsystem, please read the following:
>>>>>>> https://docs.kernel.org/accel/introduction.html
>>>>>>> This introduction also contains links to other important email threads
>>>>>>> and to Dave Airlie's BOF summary in LPC2022.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Oded
> 

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