linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 1/9] ntsync: Introduce the ntsync driver and character device.

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <CALCETrU+Eb5CdkqfYK8JvOiPA7K-6Bfs4uEWiu-U9oH95XfvKw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 13:26:15 -0800
From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>
To: Elizabeth Figura <zfigura@...eweavers.com>
Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>, Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>, 
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-api@...r.kernel.org, 
	wine-devel@...ehq.org, André Almeida <andrealmeid@...lia.com>, 
	Wolfram Sang <wsa@...nel.org>, Arkadiusz Hiler <ahiler@...eweavers.com>, 
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/9] ntsync: Introduce the ntsync driver and character device.

On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 4:59 PM Elizabeth Figura
<zfigura@...eweavers.com> wrote:
>
> ntsync uses a misc device as the simplest and least intrusive uAPI interface.
>
> Each file description on the device represents an isolated NT instance, intended
> to correspond to a single NT virtual machine.

If I understand this text right, and if I understood the code right,
you're saying that each open instance of the device represents an
entire universe of NT synchronization objects, and no security or
isolation is possible between those objects.  For single-process use,
this seems fine.  But fork() will be a bit odd (although NT doesn't
really believe in fork, so maybe this is fine).

Except that NT has *named* semaphores and such.  And I'm pretty sure
I've written GUI programs that use named synchronization objects (IIRC
they were events, and this was a *very* common pattern, regularly
discussed in MSDN, usenet, etc) to detect whether another instance of
the program is running.  And this all works on real Windows because
sessions have sufficiently separated namespaces, and the security all
works out about as any other security on Windows, etc.  But
implementing *that* on top of this
file-description-plus-integer-equals-object will be fundamentally
quite subject to one buggy program completely clobbering someone
else's state.

Would it make sense and scale appropriately for an NT synchronization
*object* to be a Linux open file description?  Then SCM_RIGHTS could
pass them around, an RPC server could manage *named* objects, and
they'd generally work just like other "Object Manager" objects like,
say, files.

--Andy