Message-ID: <20240220185714.GO4163@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2024 13:57:15 -0500
From: Rich Felker <dalias@...c.org>
To: "Edgecombe, Rick P" <rick.p.edgecombe@...el.com>
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Subject: Re: [musl] Re: [PATCH v8 00/38] arm64/gcs: Provide support for GCS
 in userspace

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 06:41:05PM +0000, Edgecombe, Rick P wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I worked on the x86 kernel shadow stack support. I think it is an
> interesting suggestion. Some questions below, and I will think more on
> it.
> 
> On Tue, 2024-02-20 at 11:36 -0500, Stefan O'Rear wrote:
> > While discussing the ABI implications of shadow stacks in the context
> > of
> > Zicfiss and musl a few days ago, I had the following idea for how to
> > solve
> > the source compatibility problems with shadow stacks in POSIX.1-2004
> > and
> > POSIX.1-2017:
> > 
> > 1. Introduce a "flexible shadow stack handling" option.  For what
> > follows,
> >    it doesn't matter if this is system-wide, per-mm, or per-vma.
> > 
> > 2. Shadow stack faults on non-shadow stack pages, if flexible shadow
> > stack
> >    handling is in effect, cause the affected page to become a shadow
> > stack
> >    page.  When this happens, the page filled with invalid address
> > tokens.
> 
> Hmm, could the shadow stack underflow onto the real stack then? Not
> sure how bad that is. INCSSP (incrementing the SSP register on x86)
> loops are not rare so it seems like something that could happen.

Shadow stack underflow should fault on attempt to access
non-shadow-stack memory as shadow-stack, no?

> >    Faults from non-shadow-stack accesses to a shadow-stack page which
> > was
> >    created by the previous paragraph will cause the page to revert to
> >    non-shadow-stack usage, with or without clearing.
> 
> Won't this prevent catching stack overflows when they happen? An
> overflow will just turn the shadow stack into normal stack and only get
> detected when the shadow stack unwinds?

I don't think that's as big a problem as it sounds like. It might make
pinpointing the spot at which things went wrong take a little bit more
work, but it should not admit any wrong-execution.

> A related question would be how to handle the expanding nature of the
> initial stack. I guess the initial stack could be special and have a
> separate shadow stack.

That seems fine.

> >    Important: a shadow stack operation can only load a valid address
> > from
> >    a page if that page has been in continuous shadow stack use since
> > the
> >    address was written by another shadow stack operation; the
> > flexibility
> >    delays error reporting in cases of stray writes but it never
> > allows for
> >    corruption of shadow stack operation.
> 
> Shadow stacks currently have automatic guard gaps to try to prevent one
> thread from overflowing onto another thread's shadow stack. This would
> somewhat opens that up, as the stack guard gaps are usually maintained
> by userspace for new threads. It would have to be thought through if
> these could still be enforced with checking at additional spots.

I would think the existing guard pages would already do that if a
thread's shadow stack is contiguous with its own data stack.

> > 3. Standards-defined operations which use a user-provided stack
> >    (makecontext, sigaltstack, pthread_attr_setstack) use a subrange
> > of the
> >    provided stack for shadow stack storage.  I propose to use a
> > shadow
> >    stack size of 1/32 of the provided stack size, rounded up to a
> > positive
> >    integer number of pages, and place the shadow stack allocation at
> > the
> >    lowest page-aligned address inside the provided stack region.
> > 
> >    Since page usage is flexible, no change in page permissions is
> >    immediately needed; this merely sets the initial shadow stack
> > pointer for
> >    the new context.
> > 
> >    If the shadow stack grew in the opposite direction to the
> > architectural
> >    stack, it would not be necessary to pick a fixed direction.
> > 
> > 4. SIGSTKSZ and MINSIGSTKSZ are increased by 2 pages to provide
> > sufficient
> >    space for a minimum-sized shadow stack region and worst case
> > alignment.
> 
> Do all makecontext() callers ensure the size is greater than this?
> 
> I guess glibc's makecontext() could do this scheme to prevent leaking
> without any changes to the kernel. Basically steal a little of the
> stack address range and overwrite it with a shadow stack mapping. But
> only if the apps leave enough room. If they need to be updated, then
> they could be updated to manage their own shadow stacks too I think.

>From the musl side, I have always looked at the entirely of shadow
stack stuff with very heavy skepticism, and anything that breaks
existing interface contracts, introduced places where apps can get
auto-killed because a late resource allocation fails, or requires
applications to code around the existence of something that should be
an implementation detail, is a non-starter. To even consider shadow
stack support, it must truely be fully non-breaking.

> > _Without_ doing this, sigaltstack cannot be used to recover from
> > stack
> > overflows if the shadow stack limit is reached first, and makecontext
> > cannot be supported without memory leaks and unreportable error
> > conditions.
> 
> FWIW, I think the makecontext() shadow stack leaking is a bad idea. I
> would prefer the existing makecontext() interface just didn't support
> shadow stack, rather than the leaking solution glibc does today.

AIUI the proposal by Stefan makes it non-leaking because it's just
using normal memory that reverts to normal usage on any
non-shadow-stack access.

Rich

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