Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 15:38:58 +0000
From: "Souza, Jose" <jose.souza@...el.com>
To: "De Marchi, Lucas" <lucas.demarchi@...el.com>
CC: "intel-xe@...ts.freedesktop.org" <intel-xe@...ts.freedesktop.org>, "Vivi,
 Rodrigo" <rodrigo.vivi@...el.com>, "quic_mojha@...cinc.com"
	<quic_mojha@...cinc.com>, "johannes@...solutions.net"
	<johannes@...solutions.net>, "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org"
	<linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, "Cavitt, Jonathan"
	<jonathan.cavitt@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/4] devcoredump: Add dev_coredumpm_timeout()

On Tue, 2024-03-05 at 09:22 -0600, Lucas De Marchi wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 05, 2024 at 02:21:45PM +0000, Jose Souza wrote:
> > On Mon, 2024-03-04 at 17:55 -0600, Lucas De Marchi wrote:
> > > On Mon, Mar 04, 2024 at 02:29:03PM +0000, Jose Souza wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 2024-03-01 at 09:38 +0100, Johannes Berg wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2024-02-28 at 17:56 +0000, Souza, Jose wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > In my opinion, the timeout should depend on the type of device driver.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > In the case of server-class Ethernet cards, where corporate users automate most tasks, five minutes might even be considered excessive.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > For our case, GPUs, users might experience minor glitches and only search for what happened after finishing their current task (writing an email,
> > > > > > > > ending a gaming match, watching a YouTube video, etc.).
> > > > > > > > If they land on https://drm.pages.freedesktop.org/intel-docs/how-to-file-i915-bugs.html or the future Xe version of that page, following the
> > > > > > > > instructions alone may take inexperienced Linux users more than five minutes.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > That's all not wrong, but I don't see why you wouldn't automate this
> > > > > > even on end user machines? I feel you're boxing the problem in by
> > > > > > wanting to solve it entirely in the kernel?
> > > > 
> > > > The other part of the stack that we provide are the libraries implementing Vulkan and OpenGL APIs, I don't think we could ship scripts that needs
> > > > elevated privileges to read and store coredump.
> > > 
> > > it's still a very valid point though. Why are we doing this only on
> > > kernel side or mesa side rather than doing it in the proper place?  As
> > > Johannes said, this could very well be automated via udev rules.
> > > Distros automate getting the coredump already with systemd-coredump and
> > > the like.  Why wouldn't we do it similarly for GPU?  Handling this at
> > > the proper place you leave the policy there for "how long to retain the
> > > log", "maximum size", "rotation", etc.... outside of the kernel.
> > 
> > Where and how would this udev rules be distributed?
> 
> it depends on where you implement such a logic to collect gpu coredump.
> It might be a new project, it might be a daemon from mesa itself, it
> might be extending systemd-coredump.  Your decision on where to
> implement it will influence what's the reach it will have.

Don't make sense to be in Mesa, compute and media stacks also needs it.

> 
> > There is portable way to do that for distros that don't ship with systemd?
> 
> If you do it in one place, people who care can probably replicate to
> other environments.

But then the 5 min timeout is still problematic.

In my opinion we can have this automation, make it store codedump in disk, do the dump rotation... but also have a 1 hour timeout.
The automation can write "0" to devcoredump/data and free the dump from memory for the distros that supports this automation.

> 
> Lucas De Marchi
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > For the purposes of reporting a bug, wouldn't it be better to instruct
> > > users to get the log that was saved to disk so they don't risk losing
> > > it? I view the timeout more as a "protection" from the kernel side to
> > > not waste memory if the complete stack is not in place. It shoudln't
> > > be viewed as a timeout for how long the *user* will take to get the log
> > > and create bug reports.
> > > 
> > > Lucas De Marchi
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I have set the timeout to one hour in the Xe driver, but this could increase if we start receiving user complaints.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > At an hour now, people will probably start arguing that "indefinitely"
> > > > > > is about right? But at that point you're probably back to persisting
> > > > > > them on disk anyway? Or maybe glitches happen during logout/shutdown ...
> > > > 
> > > > i915 driver don't use coredump and it persist the error dump in memory until user frees it or reboot it and we got no complains.
> > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Anyway, I don't want to block this because I just don't care enough
> > > > > > about how you do things, but I think the kernel is the wrong place to
> > > > > > solve this problem... The intent here was to give some userspace time to
> > > > > > grab it (and yes for that 5 minutes is already way too long), not the
> > > > > > users. That's also part of the reason we only hold on to a single
> > > > > > instance, since I didn't want it to keep consuming more and more memory
> > > > > > for it if happens repeatedly.
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > okay so will move forward with other version applying your suggestion to make dev_coredumpm() static inline and move to the header.
> > > > 
> > > > thank you for the feedback
> > > > 
> > > > > > johannes
> > > > 
> > 

Powered by blists - more mailing lists