Message-ID: <5343dc29-83cb-49b4-91ff-57bbd0eaa1df@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2024 16:45:18 +0100
From: Bernd Schubert <bernd.schubert@...tmail.fm>
To: Jingbo Xu <jefflexu@...ux.alibaba.com>, Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...redi.hu>
Cc: linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
 zhangjiachen.jaycee@...edance.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH] fuse: increase FUSE_MAX_MAX_PAGES limit



On 3/6/24 14:32, Jingbo Xu wrote:
> 
> 
> On 3/5/24 10:26 PM, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 at 05:00, Jingbo Xu <jefflexu@...ux.alibaba.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Miklos,
>>>
>>> On 1/26/24 2:29 PM, Jingbo Xu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/24/24 8:47 PM, Jingbo Xu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/24/24 8:23 PM, Miklos Szeredi wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 at 08:05, Jingbo Xu <jefflexu@...ux.alibaba.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Xu Ji <laoji.jx@...baba-inc.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Increase FUSE_MAX_MAX_PAGES limit, so that the maximum data size of a
>>>>>>> single request is increased.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only worry is about where this memory is getting accounted to.
>>>>>> This needs to be thought through, since the we are increasing the
>>>>>> possible memory that an unprivileged user is allowed to pin.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the request size, the maximum number of background requests,
>>>> i.e. max_background (12 by default, and configurable by the fuse
>>>> daemon), also limits the size of the memory that an unprivileged user
>>>> can pin.  But yes, it indeed increases the number proportionally by
>>>> increasing the maximum request size.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This optimizes the write performance especially when the optimal IO size
>>>>>>> of the backend store at the fuse daemon side is greater than the original
>>>>>>> maximum request size (i.e. 1MB with 256 FUSE_MAX_MAX_PAGES and
>>>>>>> 4096 PAGE_SIZE).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be noted that this only increases the upper limit of the maximum request
>>>>>>> size, while the real maximum request size relies on the FUSE_INIT
>>>>>>> negotiation with the fuse daemon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Xu Ji <laoji.jx@...baba-inc.com>
>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Jingbo Xu <jefflexu@...ux.alibaba.com>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> I'm not sure if 1024 is adequate for FUSE_MAX_MAX_PAGES, as the
>>>>>>> Bytedance floks seems to had increased the maximum request size to 8M
>>>>>>> and saw a ~20% performance boost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 20% is against the 256 pages, I guess.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah I guess so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be interesting to
>>>>>> see the how the number of pages per request affects performance and
>>>>>> why.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be honest, I'm not sure the root cause of the performance boost in
>>>>> bytedance's case.
>>>>>
>>>>> While in our internal use scenario, the optimal IO size of the backend
>>>>> store at the fuse server side is, e.g. 4MB, and thus if the maximum
>>>>> throughput can not be achieved with current 256 pages per request. IOW
>>>>> the backend store, e.g. a distributed parallel filesystem, get optimal
>>>>> performance when the data is aligned at 4MB boundary.  I can ask my folk
>>>>> who implements the fuse server to give more background info and the
>>>>> exact performance statistics.
>>>>
>>>> Here are more details about our internal use case:
>>>>
>>>> We have a fuse server used in our internal cloud scenarios, while the
>>>> backend store is actually a distributed filesystem.  That is, the fuse
>>>> server actually plays as the client of the remote distributed
>>>> filesystem.  The fuse server forwards the fuse requests to the remote
>>>> backing store through network, while the remote distributed filesystem
>>>> handles the IO requests, e.g. process the data from/to the persistent store.
>>>>
>>>> Then it comes the details of the remote distributed filesystem when it
>>>> process the requested data with the persistent store.
>>>>
>>>> [1] The remote distributed filesystem uses, e.g. a 8+3 mode, EC
>>>> (ErasureCode), where each fixed sized user data is split and stored as 8
>>>> data blocks plus 3 extra parity blocks. For example, with 512 bytes
>>>> block size, for each 4MB user data, it's split and stored as 8 (512
>>>> bytes) data blocks with 3 (512 bytes) parity blocks.
>>>>
>>>> It also utilize the stripe technology to boost the performance, for
>>>> example, there are 8 data disks and 3 parity disks in the above 8+3 mode
>>>> example, in which each stripe consists of 8 data blocks and 3 parity
>>>> blocks.
>>>>
>>>> [2] To avoid data corruption on power off, the remote distributed
>>>> filesystem commit a O_SYNC write right away once a write (fuse) request
>>>> received.  Since the EC described above, when the write fuse request is
>>>> not aligned on 4MB (the stripe size) boundary, say it's 1MB in size, the
>>>> other 3MB is read from the persistent store first, then compute the
>>>> extra 3 parity blocks with the complete 4MB stripe, and finally write
>>>> the 8 data blocks and 3 parity blocks down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thus the write amplification is un-neglectable and is the performance
>>>> bottleneck when the fuse request size is less than the stripe size.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some simple performance statistics with varying request size.
>>>> With 4MB stripe size, there's ~3x bandwidth improvement when the maximum
>>>> request size is increased from 256KB to 3.9MB, and another ~20%
>>>> improvement when the request size is increased to 4MB from 3.9MB.
>>
>> I sort of understand the issue, although my guess is that this could
>> be worked around in the client by coalescing writes.  This could be
>> done by adding a small delay before sending a write request off to the
>> network.
>>
>> Would that work in your case?
> 
> It's possible but I'm not sure. I've asked my colleagues who working on
> the fuse server and the backend store, though have not been replied yet.
>  But I guess it's not as simple as increasing the maximum FUSE request
> size directly and thus more complexity gets involved.
> 
> I can also understand the concern that this may increase the risk of
> pinning more memory footprint, and a more generic using scenario needs
> to be considered.  I can make it a private patch for our internal product.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions and discussion.

It also gets kind of solved in my fuse-over-io-uring branch - as long as
there are enough free ring entries. I'm going to add in a flag there
that other CQEs might be follow up requests. Really time to post a new
version.

Bernd

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