Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 14:27:01 -0700
From: Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>
To: John Ernberg <john.ernberg@...ia.se>,
 "Russell King (Oracle)" <linux@...linux.org.uk>
Cc: Maxime Chevallier <maxime.chevallier@...tlin.com>,
 Wei Fang <wei.fang@....com>, Shenwei Wang <shenwei.wang@....com>,
 Clark Wang <xiaoning.wang@....com>, NXP Linux Team <linux-imx@....com>,
 "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>, Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>,
 Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>,
 Heiner Kallweit <hkallweit1@...il.com>,
 "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
 "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
 Andrew Lunn <andrew@...n.ch>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net v3 2/2] net: fec: Suspend the PHY on probe

On 3/25/24 05:20, John Ernberg wrote:
> Hi Florian,
> 
> On 3/21/24 17:13, Florian Fainelli wrote:
>> On 3/21/24 09:02, John Ernberg wrote:
>>> Hi Russell,
>>>
>>> On 3/20/24 20:44, Russell King (Oracle) wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:13:55AM -0700, Florian Fainelli wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/20/2024 9:54 AM, Russell King (Oracle) wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 03:25:54PM +0000, John Ernberg wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Russel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Growl. Hi Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we really want is the PHY to be suspended on suspend to RAM
>>>>>>> regardless of us having had an initial link up or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what you're asking is for the PHY to be suspended when the system
>>>>>> is entering suspend, which is a long time after the system booted and
>>>>>> thus phy_probe() was called, and could be some time before the system
>>>>>> resumes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure what the relevance is of phy_probe() that was brought up
>>>>>> previously then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This worked prior to 4c0d2e96ba05 ("net: phy: consider that
>>>>>>> suspend2ram
>>>>>>> may cut
>>>>>>> off PHY power") which was added in Linux 5.11, and 557d5dc83f68
>>>>>>> ("net:
>>>>>>> fec: use
>>>>>>> mac-managed PHY PM") which was added in Linux 5.12.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the former commit, that looks to me like it is only
>>>>>> affecting the resume paths, not the suspend paths, so wouldn't have
>>>>>> any impact itself on what happens when suspend happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The latter commit states that it is a work around for an issue with a
>>>>>> particular PHY. What happens if you revert just this commit, does your
>>>>>> problem then go away?
>>>
>>> Our PHY does not begin working again without reverting both.
>>> phy_init_hw()
>>> will remain an issue if it occurs after phy_start().
>>>
>>> The commit message in 557d5dc83f68 is not explaining nearly enough, I
>>> spent a
>>> few days on it before I proved that commit to be nearly correct (See
>>> whole
>>> thread at [1]), it happened to just explode with that PHY. The issue is a
>>> sequencing issue that was made more prominent by 4c0d2e96ba05, but it
>>> existed
>>> since around 2008. Because FEC is both MDIO controller and MAC,
>>> meaning the
>>> resume of the link in a link up case runs phy_start() in the FEC resume
>>> function, which will trigger a mdio bus resume when it completes, in turn
>>> calling phy_init_hw() (before 4c0d2e96ba05 it was phy_resume() which
>>> wasn't a
>>> problem but still wrong sequence wise).
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, please clarify. It seems that you are reporting a regression -
>>>>>> it used to work for you prior to 557d5dc83f68, but 557d5dc83f68 stops
>>>>>> it working for you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since FEC requires mac_managed_pm the generic PM suspend-resume paths
>>>>>>> are not
>>>>>>> taken. The resume sequencing with generic PM has been broken with the
>>>>>>> FEC since
>>>>>>> generic PM of the mdio bus was added, as the FEC will do phy_start()
>>>>>>> (via FEC
>>>>>>> resume) and then generic PM runs phy_init_hw() via mdio bus resume
>>>>>>> (previously:
>>>>>>> less damaging phy_resume()) due to how the FEC IP block works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That suggests that even with 557d5dc83f68 reverted, it's broken.
>>>>>> Digging into the history, what you're referring to dates from January
>>>>>> 2016, so are you reporting a regression that occured 8 _years_ ago,
>>>>>> at which point I'd question why it's taken 8 years.
>>>
>>> A revert of those is absolutely wrong. Those commits are fixing bigger
>>> issues.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the time that has passed, I don't think reverting commits is
>>>>>> a sane approach. Quite what the right solution is though, I'm not
>>>>>> sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     From the description and the commits pointed to, I just don't see
>>>>>> that there is anything that could've changed with respect to the first
>>>>>> boot - if that has changed, then I think more research into what
>>>>>> caused
>>>>>> it is needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it's the subsequent state after a suspend-resume cycle, then yes,
>>>>>> I would agree that its possible that these changes broke this for you.
>>>>>> Would clearing ndev->phydev->mac_managed_pm just before
>>>>>> phy_disconnect() in fec_enet_close() fix it for you, so the suspend/
>>>>>> resume paths for the PHY get used when the network interface is down?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe, however, that's something that should happen in any case inside
>>>>>> phylib on phy_disconnect() as a matter of course, since the PHY will
>>>>>> at that point be no longer under the control of the network driver for
>>>>>> PM purposes. Could you give this idea a try please?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On phy_disconnect() we will do a phy_detach() which calls
>>>>> phy_suspend().
>>>>> Given that phy_disconnect() is called from fec_enet_close(), we
>>>>> still have a
>>>>> MDIO bus registered and we are not trying to suspend the MDIO bus,
>>>>> so we
>>>>> should have an effective phy_suspend() call here, what am I missing?
>>>>
>>>> I didn't look there, but if that is the case, then what is John's
>>>> problem - I can't figure it out, something isn't adding up here.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I could instead add extra phy_suspend() in the suspend path if the
>>> link is
>>> down and the FEC is up and running. I rejected it originally thinking
>>> it was
>>> a much dirtier fix, but maybe that is the more correct thing to do?
>>
>> This does not seem like the proper solution, the only time where an
>> explicit phy_suspend() should be done in the Ethernet MAC's ->suspend()
>> routine is if the network device was brought up at the time
>> (netif_runninng() returns true) *and* you set mac_managed_pm = true
>> because you must precisely control the order in which the MAC and the
>> PHY get suspended with respect to each other (typically because the PHY
>> supplies a RX clock back to the MAC, and some of the MAC logic depends
>> upon it to operate properly, e.g.: perform a proper FIFO flush etc.).
> 
> I'm having some trouble understanding your message in context of my most
> recent reply to Russell, so please bear with me here as I will
> potentially ask a really dumb question:
> 
> Do I understand this correctly as what used to work in 5.10 was never
> meant to work and the behavior now is the correct one in the FEC case?

I am not sure about that, because I do not believe this had been 
explicitly accounted for, and that is what I am also trying to figure out.

> Meaning that if the link has never been up the PHY must never be handled
> from a power management perspective?

Let's stray away from saying "link is UP" but instead say interface 
administratively brought up (ip link set dev <foo> up) so we are on the 
same page.

> 
> The only PHY examples I have come across (though not many in total) the
> PHY has done some initial configuration of itself after POR or release
> of the reset line.
> 
>>
>>   From there, I see two distinct cases:
>>
>> - the network device driver probed, but the network device was never
>> brought up in the first place in that case, I do not see a path whereby
>> the PHY would have been suspended, unless the boot firmware already took
>> care of that (which arguably it should if you are trying to be as power
>> efficient as possible), although arguably there could be a path within
>> the kernel where this is also done. It could get really complicated however
> 
> Generic PM via mdio_bus_phy_suspend() will suspend the PHY if it has a
> .suspend callback and mac_managed_pm isn't set.

Correct.

> 
> mdio_bus_phy_may_suspend() will see that netdev is NULL, which means it
> returns the inverse of phy->suspended (which is false), meaning the
> function returns true. Thus phy_suspend() is called.

OK, so right there is where you were were basically depending upon 
mdio_bus_phy_may_suspend() being called to suspend your PHY device! I 
don't think this had ever been envisioned to be working that way, if it 
did that was a byproduct rather than a contract. Introducing 
mac_managed_pm certainly did break that contract because now we no 
longer have that "double" suspend and resume that used to happen.

> 
>>
>> - the network device driver probed, and the network device was brought
>> up at least once (regardless of whether a link state was detected or
>> not), such that the PHY has gone through a phy_start()/phy_stop() cycle,
>> and upon phy_stop() a phy_suspend() has been called
>>
>> It is safe to assume you fall in the first case only, or do you also see
>> a problem in the second case as well?
> 
> There is only a problem in the first case. The second case is working as
> expected.

Thanks for the clarification.
-- 
Florian

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