Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2024 19:56:39 +0200
From: Benjamin Tissoires <benjamin.tissoires@...hat.com>
To: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
Cc: Benjamin Tissoires <bentiss@...nel.org>, Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>, 
	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>, Andrii Nakryiko <andrii@...nel.org>, 
	Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@...ux.dev>, Eduard Zingerman <eddyz87@...il.com>, Song Liu <song@...nel.org>, 
	Yonghong Song <yonghong.song@...ux.dev>, John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>, 
	KP Singh <kpsingh@...nel.org>, Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>, Hao Luo <haoluo@...gle.com>, 
	Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...nel.org>, Mykola Lysenko <mykolal@...com>, Shuah Khan <shuah@...nel.org>, 
	bpf <bpf@...r.kernel.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, 
	"open list:KERNEL SELFTEST FRAMEWORK" <linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next v5 1/6] bpf/helpers: introduce sleepable bpf_timers

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 6:41 PM Alexei Starovoitov
<alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 8:27 AM Benjamin Tissoires
> <benjamin.tissoires@...hat.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > So we need something like:
> > >
> > > struct bpf_hrtimer {
> > >   union {
> > >     struct hrtimer timer;
> > > +   struct work_struct work;
> > >   };
> > >   struct bpf_map *map;
> > >   struct bpf_prog *prog;
> > >   void __rcu *callback_fn;
> > >   void *value;
> > >   union {
> >
> > Are you sure we need an union here? If we get to call kfree_rcu() we
> > need to have both struct rcu_head and sync_work, not one or the other.
>
> why? with an extra flag it's one or the other.
> In bpf_timer_cancel_and_free()
> if (flag & SLEEPABLE) {
>     schedule_work() to cancel_work_sync + kfree_rcu
> } else {
>    hrtimer_cancel
>    kfree_rcu
> }

I thought kfree_rcu required struct rcu_head, and given that we need
to initialize sync_work it will be poisoned...

>
> > >     struct rcu_head rcu;
> > > +   struct work_struct sync_work;
> > >   };
> > > + u64 flags; // bpf_timer_init() will require BPF_F_TIMER_SLEEPABLE
> >
> > If I understand, you want BPF_F_TIMER_SLEEPABLE in bpf_timer_init()
> > (like in my v2 or v3 IIRC). But that means that once a timer is
> > initialized it needs to be of one or the other type (especially true
> > with the first union in this struct).
>
> yes. That's an idea.
> The code to support wq vs timer seems to be diverging more
> than what we expected initially.
> It seems cleaner to set it as init time and enforce in
> other helpers.

OK, works for me.

>
> Also with two work_struct-s we're pushing the sizeof(bpf_hrtimer)
> too far.
> It's already at 112 bytes and some people use bpf_timer per flow.
> So potentially millions of such timers.
> Adding extra sizeof(struct work_struct)=32 * 2 that won't be
> used is too much.
> Note that sizeof(struct hrtimer)=64, so unions make everything
> fit nicely.

Maybe we should do
union {
  struct hrtimer timer;
  struct {
    struct work_struct work;
    struct work_struct sync_work;
  }
}

(not nice to read but at least we don't change the size at the beginning)

>
> > So should we reject during run time bpf_timer_set_callback() for
> > sleepable timers and only allow bpf_timer_set_sleepable_cb() for
> > those? (and the invert in the other case).
>
> yes.
>
> > This version of the patch allows for one timer to be used as softIRQ
> > or WQ, depending on the timer_set_callback that is used. But it might
> > be simpler for the kfree_rcu race to define the bpf_timer to be of one
> > kind, so we are sure to call the correct kfree method.
>
> I think one or another simplifies the code and makes it easier
> to think through combinations.
>
> I'm still contemplating adding new "struct bpf_wq" and new kfuncs
> to completely separate wq vs timer.
> The code reuse seems to be relatively small.

There is some code reuse in the verifier, but it can be factored out I think.

Though the biggest reuse might be in the map portion of bpf_timer,
which I haven't looked much TBH.

> We can potentially factor out internals of bpf_timer_* into smaller
> helpers and use them from bpf_timer_* and from new bpf_wq_* kfuncs.

Yeah, also, given that we are going to enforce delay == 0 for
sleepable timers (wq), the user api would be much cleaner if we can
have a dedicated bpf_wq (and it would make the flags of bpf_timer_init
easier to deal with).

>
> One more thing.
> bpf_timer_cancel() api turned out to be troublesome.
> Not only it cancels the timer, but drops callback too.
> It was a surprising behavior for people familiar with
> kernel timer api-s.
> We should not repeat this mistake with wq.
>
> We can try to fix bpf_timer_cancel() too.
> If we drop drop_prog_refcnt() from it it shouldn't affect
> existing bpf_timer users who are forced to do:
> bpf_timer_cancel()
> bpf_timer_set_callback()
> bpf_timer_start()
> all the time.
> If/when bpf_timer_cancel() stops dropping the callback
> such bpf prog won't be affected. So low chance of breaking any prog.
> wdyt?
>

How would a program know set_callback() is not required after a
cancel() because the kernel kept it around? It seems that it's going
to be hard for them to know that (unless by trying first a start()),
and it will add more code.

timer_cancel() would be hard to change but we can always do the change
and add a new kfunc timer_cancel_no_drop() which would clearly allow
for new programs to know that set_callback() is not required to be
called. In a few kernel releases we could remove it and say that
timer_cancel() is the same (and replaced by a #define)

Anyway, the more I think of it, the more I think the best API would be
a dedicated wq API. It's probably going to need a little bit more
work, but it'll be more or less this work plus the new bpf_wq type in
the map.

Cheers,
Benjamin

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