linux-kernel - Re: [WIP 0/3] Memory model and atomic API in Rust

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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2024 13:05:20 -0700
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To: Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>
Cc: Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>, Philipp Stanner <pstanner@...hat.com>, 
	Kent Overstreet <kent.overstreet@...ux.dev>, Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>, 
	rust-for-linux@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, 
	linux-arch@...r.kernel.org, llvm@...ts.linux.dev, 
	Miguel Ojeda <ojeda@...nel.org>, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@...il.com>, 
	Wedson Almeida Filho <wedsonaf@...il.com>, Gary Guo <gary@...yguo.net>, 
	Björn Roy Baron <bjorn3_gh@...tonmail.com>, 
	Benno Lossin <benno.lossin@...ton.me>, Andreas Hindborg <a.hindborg@...sung.com>, 
	Alice Ryhl <aliceryhl@...gle.com>, Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>, 
	Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@...il.com>, Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, 
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>, Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@...il.com>, 
	David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>, Jade Alglave <j.alglave@....ac.uk>, 
	Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@...ia.fr>, "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>, 
	Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@...il.com>, Daniel Lustig <dlustig@...dia.com>, 
	Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org>, Nathan Chancellor <nathan@...nel.org>, 
	Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@...gle.com>, kent.overstreet@...il.com, 
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>, elver@...gle.com, 
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@....com>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>, 
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>, 
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>, x86@...nel.org, 
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>, 
	linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [WIP 0/3] Memory model and atomic API in Rust

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 at 11:14, Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk> wrote:
>
> FWIW, PA-RISC is no better - the same "fetch and replace with constant"
> kind of primitive as for sparc32, only the constant is (u32)0 instead
> of (u8)~0.  And unlike sparc64, 64bit variant didn't get better.

Heh. The thing about PA-RISC is that it is actually *so* much worse
that it was never useful for an arithmetic type.

IOW, the fact that sparc used just a byte meant that the aotmic_t
hackery on sparc still gave us 24 useful bits in a 32-bit atomic_t.

So long ago, we used to have an arithmetic atomic_t that was 32-bit on
all sane architectures, but only had a 24-bit range on sparc.

And I know you know all this, I'm just explaining the horror for the audience.

On PA-RISC you couldn't do that horrendous trick, so parist just used
the "we use a hashed spinlock for all atomics", and "atomic_t" was a
regular full-sized integer type.

Anyway, the sparc 24-bit atomics were actually replaced by the PA-RISC
version back twenty years ago (almost to the day):

   https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tglx/history.git/commit/?id=373f1583c5c5

and while we still had some left-over of that horror in the git tree
up until 2011 (until commit 348738afe530: "sparc32: drop unused
atomic24 support") we probably should have made the
"arch_atomic_xyz()" ops work on generic types rather than "atomic_t"
for a long long time, so that you could use them on other things than
"atomic_t" and friends.

You can see the casting horror here, for example:

   include/asm-generic/bitops/atomic.h

where we do that cast from "volatile unsigned long *p" to
"atomic_long_t *" just to use the raw_atomic_long_xyz() operations.

It would make more sense if the raw atomics took that "native"
volatile unsigned long pointer directly.

(And here that "volatile" is not because it's necessary used as a
volatile - it is - but simply because it's the most permissive type of
pointer. You can see other places using "const volatile unsigned long"
pointers for the same reason: passing in a non-const or non-volatile
pointer is perfectly fine).

              Linus