Message-ID: <569605b7-1b87-4c67-97a4-fa883cec0ff8@huaweicloud.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 11:09:14 +0200
From: Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@...weicloud.com>
To: "Mathew, Cherry G.*" <c@....st>
Cc: linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC+Patch] Formal models as source of truth for Software
 Architects.



Am 11/6/2023 um 7:12 AM schrieb Mathew, Cherry G.*:
> Hi Jonas,
> 
>>>>>> Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@...weicloud.com> writes:
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>      > I meant that we implemented an internal tool to transpile from C
>      > to PlusCal.
> 
> I'm curious about the design/architecture here - how did you manage the
> logical mappings from C->PlusCal - did you have a third language to
> specify the mappings, or did you use heuristics with inherent
> assumptions ?


We stayed within a subset of C where we were quite certain about what 
the semantics is on our architecture. You can add assertions for UB 
conditions.


> 
>      > It sounded like a great idea at the time. But then it quickly fell
>      > out of use.
> 
> This is something I'm keen to understand why - was this because
> programmers focussed on the C code, and the transpiler+constraints
> became a "testing problem" which ended up in bitrot ? Or is there
> something related to the software methodology/development process ? Or
> perhaps the percieved ROI of formal verification wasn't as much as
> initially thought ? Something else ?
>

Mostly because TLA became too slow. We are using much faster stateless 
modelcheckers
with optimal DPOR or fast SMT backends now ( 
https://gitee.com/s4c/vsyncer ) which work on llvm-ir level, so the need 
to transpile into yet another language disappeared.

> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>      > For reuse, I think the main issue is that implementation code is
>      > always a source of truth - the truth of what's really going to be
>      > executed.  If we want to have a second source of truth, it should
>      > be a different truth, such as "assumptions of the other parts of
>      > the system".
> 
>      > Since you already have this source of truth, if you make a
>      > different implementation in another kernel, you can compare what
>      > the original driver was doing with what your new implementation is
>      > doing.  There's no need to have yet another copy of what the
>      > driver might be doing.
> 
> 
> I understand what you're saying, but there are a few points that I'm
> probably not able to express clearly.
> 
> Just to set context, and not to state the obvious - as you likely
> already know, Formal languages such as pluscal or promela have an
> "execution model" that is different from a programming language - in
> that, when one writes code in them, one's mental model needs to pay
> attention to behaviour, whereas function becomes a more abstract
> problem[...]. I wrote a very hand wavy description of
> this in the context of spin:
> 
> https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2023/09/28/msg029203.html


I don't understand this paragraph.

> 
> So to return to your concern about code duplication, in the context of
> codegen, one could make the same argument about compiled or transpiled
> code - if it were manually transpiled. And yet we are comfortable as
> programmers, assuming that the "higher level language" is the source of
> truth, while happily stepping "down" to gcc __inline__ __asm__ {} when
> needed. So, for eg: (and I believe there are tools out there that can
> do this to some degree) - if the programming code could be
> auto-generated/"compiled" from the formal specification, then this would
> become directly analogous.


In system software, there are a lot of implementation concerns that go 
beyond what you'd normally express in a formal spec. Once you add all of 
that detail, it becomes an implementation.


> 
> 
> [...]
> 
>      >> Can you give me an example of how this works/a pre-existing tool
>      >> that helps with this simplification ? I'm actually currently
>      >> looking at re-writing modex to do precisely this (but with the
>      >> translation end-point being something close to the original
>      >> model).
> 
> 
>      > I think any higher level language, including C, goes into this
>      > direction. Some are just a lot better at building abstractions and
>      > describing the code more model-like than
>      > tiniest-implementation-detail-like.
> 
> C is problematic because it doesn't for eg: define concurrency or
> consistency models - in many cases, even the data types are not clearly
> defined (eg: "integer" is machine word size dependant). So it's really
> hard to specify something formal at the level of C that is not very
> context (OS/CPU arch) specific.


In practice this is a non-issue.
Either prove that it works for the least common denominator. E.g. if you 
prove that your int values stay within 16 bit, or you know your 
architectures all have 32 bit int, there's no issue. Or you use a u32 or 
uint32_t.

If you're paranoid about future use, you can write some assertions 
checking that the assumptions you make here are really valid in your 
real environment.

And C has concurrency models, both in C11+ and in LKMM.


> 
>      > By executable comment I mean a comment that has a formal semantics
>      > that can be executed.
> 
>      > Think more pre&post conditions + ghost code. E.g., for a tricky
>      > sort algorithm like timsort the comment might be something like
> 
>      > var __ghost_array = copy(input_array);
> 
>      > .... // complicated timsort code here
> 
>      > insertion_sort(&__ghost_array); // timsort should give the same
>      > output as insertion stort, note that both are stable
> 
>      > for (i in 0...array_len) {     assert (sorted_array[i] ==
>      > __ghost_array[i]); }
> 
> 
>      > This is probably not going to help you find the well-known timsort
>      > bug, but it might be enough to find more trivial mistakes when
>      > rolling your own timsort.  Anyways this is what I mean by
>      > executable comment - a more readable, maintainable implementation
>      > of the code that tells you what the code ought to be doing + some
>      > checks to say that they're really doing the same thing.
> 
> This looks closer to testing to me - the assertions for eg: seems to be
> atemporal ie; only concerned about "immedate" values, unlike LTL which
> can check behaviour across an "execution sequence" (in the set of all
> possible execution sequences). So from an FV perspective, I would write
> the assertion to look more like: "eventually is_sorted(array)", where
> is_sorted() has magic to check to if the array elements are sorted in
> whatever required order.

In principle you can extend the assertion language to temporal formulas 
as well. There are some cases where we write assertions over a whole 
trace. But it's easier to find engineers who write some non-temporal 
assertions than those who write temporal assertions.

Best wishes,

jonas

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