linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v1 1/6] thermal: sysfs: Trigger zone temperature updates on sysfs reads

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Message-ID: <65a94273-7fa5-4352-a24b-a08a1f244f99@linaro.org>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 11:45:56 +0200
From: Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@...aro.org>
To: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>, Lukasz Luba <lukasz.luba@....com>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...ysocki.net>,
 LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, Linux PM <linux-pm@...r.kernel.org>,
 Srinivas Pandruvada <srinivas.pandruvada@...ux.intel.com>,
 Zhang Rui <rui.zhang@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/6] thermal: sysfs: Trigger zone temperature updates
 on sysfs reads

Hi Rafael,

On 16/05/2024 11:04, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> Hi Lukasz,
> 
> On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 9:11 AM Lukasz Luba <lukasz.luba@....com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rafael,
>>
>> On 5/10/24 15:13, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>> From: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@...el.com>
>>>
>>> Reading the zone temperature via sysfs causes the driver callback to
>>> be invoked, but it does not cause the thermal zone object to be updated.
>>>
>>> This is problematic if the zone temperature read via sysfs differs from
>>> the temperature value stored in the thermal zone object as it may cause
>>> the kernel and user space to act against each other in some cases.
>>>
>>> For this reason, make temp_show() trigger a zone temperature update if
>>> the temperature returned by thermal_zone_get_temp() is different from
>>> the temperature value stored in the thermal zone object.

The hwmon system is doing something similar and I'm not sure we want to 
mimic the same behavior.

Just to summarize:

1. There is a polling delay set

This polling delay gives the sampling rate the thermal zone is 
monitored. The temperature is updated at each 'delay' tick

2. There is no polling delay set

The system relies on the interrupts to tell when a temperature reaches a 
threshold.

On the other side, if the governor is in-kernel, then we should not read 
the temperature of the thermal zones because it is the job of the kernel 
to do that.

Actually we can assume the temperature information exported to the 
userspace is a courtesy of the kernel when this one is managing the 
thermal zone.

If there is no governor associated to the thermal zone because there is 
no cooling device associated to the defined trip points, then we can 
assume it is up to the userspace to monitor the thermal zone.

Furthermore, the hwmon gives the temperature information with the 
caching and because of that it is not possible for a thermal daemon to 
correctly handle a thermal zone.

That said, I would say we don't want the userspace to influence the 
thermal zone monitoring in any manner.

 From my POV, we should keep the code as it is.

The description of the change says "it may cause the kernel and user 
space to act against each other in some cases". Is it possible to give 
the cases when that can happen ?

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