linux-kernel - RE: [RFC PATCH v8 1/7] perf Document: Add TPEBS to Documents

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Message-ID: <CO6PR11MB5635F7C3C6928C2F3E5D732FEEED2@CO6PR11MB5635.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 17:37:21 +0000
From: "Wang, Weilin" <weilin.wang@...el.com>
To: Ian Rogers <irogers@...gle.com>
CC: Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org>, Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
	<acme@...nel.org>, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>, Ingo Molnar
	<mingo@...hat.com>, Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@...ux.intel.com>,
	Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...nel.org>, "Hunter, Adrian" <adrian.hunter@...el.com>,
	"Kan Liang" <kan.liang@...ux.intel.com>, "linux-perf-users@...r.kernel.org"
	<linux-perf-users@...r.kernel.org>, "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org"
	<linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, "Taylor, Perry" <perry.taylor@...el.com>,
	"Alt, Samantha" <samantha.alt@...el.com>, "Biggers, Caleb"
	<caleb.biggers@...el.com>
Subject: RE: [RFC PATCH v8 1/7] perf Document: Add TPEBS to Documents



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Rogers <irogers@...gle.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2024 9:11 AM
> To: Wang, Weilin <weilin.wang@...el.com>
> Cc: Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org>; Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
> <acme@...nel.org>; Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>; Ingo Molnar
> <mingo@...hat.com>; Alexander Shishkin
> <alexander.shishkin@...ux.intel.com>; Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...nel.org>; Hunter,
> Adrian <adrian.hunter@...el.com>; Kan Liang <kan.liang@...ux.intel.com>;
> linux-perf-users@...r.kernel.org; linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org; Taylor, Perry
> <perry.taylor@...el.com>; Alt, Samantha <samantha.alt@...el.com>; Biggers,
> Caleb <caleb.biggers@...el.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v8 1/7] perf Document: Add TPEBS to Documents
> 
> On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 10:44 PM <weilin.wang@...el.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Weilin Wang <weilin.wang@...el.com>
> >
> > TPEBS is a new feature in next generation of Intel PMU. It will be used in new
> > TMA releases. Adding related introduction to documents while adding new
> code to
> > support it in perf stat.
> >
> > Signed-off-by: Weilin Wang <weilin.wang@...el.com>
> > ---
> >  tools/perf/Documentation/perf-list.txt |  1 +
> >  tools/perf/Documentation/topdown.txt   | 18 ++++++++++++++++++
> >  2 files changed, 19 insertions(+)
> >
> > diff --git a/tools/perf/Documentation/perf-list.txt
> b/tools/perf/Documentation/perf-list.txt
> > index 6bf2468f59d3..dea005410ec0 100644
> > --- a/tools/perf/Documentation/perf-list.txt
> > +++ b/tools/perf/Documentation/perf-list.txt
> > @@ -72,6 +72,7 @@ counted. The following modifiers exist:
> >   W - group is weak and will fallback to non-group if not schedulable,
> >   e - group or event are exclusive and do not share the PMU
> >   b - use BPF aggregration (see perf stat --bpf-counters)
> > + R - retire latency value of the event
> >
> >  The 'p' modifier can be used for specifying how precise the instruction
> >  address should be. The 'p' modifier can be specified multiple times:
> > diff --git a/tools/perf/Documentation/topdown.txt
> b/tools/perf/Documentation/topdown.txt
> > index ae0aee86844f..e6c4424e8bf2 100644
> > --- a/tools/perf/Documentation/topdown.txt
> > +++ b/tools/perf/Documentation/topdown.txt
> > @@ -325,6 +325,24 @@ other four level 2 metrics by subtracting
> corresponding metrics as below.
> >      Fetch_Bandwidth = Frontend_Bound - Fetch_Latency
> >      Core_Bound = Backend_Bound - Memory_Bound
> >
> > +TPEBS in TopDown
> > +================
> > +
> > +TPEBS is one of the features provided by the next generation of Intel PMU.
> The
> 
> As this documentation will live a while "next generation" could become
> ambiguous. I think it would be better to mention core ultra or some
> other term to more specifically describe which PMUs have TPEBS.

Hi Ian, 

Yes, you are right, I will update it. 
> 
> > +TPEBS feature adds a 16 bit retire latency field in the Basic Info group of the
> > +PEBS record. It records the Core cycles since the retirement of the previous
> > +instruction to the retirement of current instruction. Please refer to Section
> > +8.4.1 of "Intel® Architecture Instruction Set Extensions Programming
> Reference"
> > +for more details about this feature.
> 
> Perhaps capture that this is placed in the perf event sample in the
> weights section as TPEBS isn't exposed except within the kernel PMU
> driver.
> 
> > +
> > +In the most recent release of TMA, the metrics begin to use event
> retire_latency
> > +values in some of the metrics’ formulas on processors that support TPEBS
> feature.
> > +For previous generations that do not support TPEBS, the values are static
> and
> > +predefined per processor family by the hardware architects. Due to the
> diversity
> > +of workloads in execution environments, retire latency values measured at
> real
> > +time are more accurate. Therefore, new TMA metrics that use TPEBS will
> provide
> > +more accurate performance analysis results.
> 
> Do you want to capture what the value will be when there hasn't been a
> sample? This corner case could be considered broken in the new
> approach.


When there is no sample, we should expect it to be 0 or use default value. I will 
add this information here. I don’t think this is broken from the approach's perspective. 
We do need to add code to return this value when there is no sample.

Thanks, 
Weilin

> Thanks,
> Ian
> 
> > +
> >
> >  [1] https://software.intel.com/en-us/top-down-microarchitecture-analysis-
> method-win
> >  [2] https://sites.google.com/site/analysismethods/yasin-pubs
> > --
> > 2.43.0
> >