linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v2 16/35] preempt,rcu: warn on PREEMPT

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 11:32:55 -0700
From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>
To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Cc: Ankur Arora <ankur.a.arora@...cle.com>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	tglx@...utronix.de, torvalds@...ux-foundation.org,
	rostedt@...dmis.org, mark.rutland@....com, juri.lelli@...hat.com,
	joel@...lfernandes.org, raghavendra.kt@....com,
	sshegde@...ux.ibm.com, boris.ostrovsky@...cle.com,
	konrad.wilk@...cle.com, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@...aro.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 16/35] preempt,rcu: warn on PREEMPT_RCU=n, preempt=full

On Wed, May 29, 2024 at 10:14:04AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 05:35:02PM -0700, Ankur Arora wrote:
> > The combination of PREEMPT_RCU=n and (PREEMPT_AUTO=y, preempt=full)
> > works at cross purposes: the RCU read side critical sections disable
> > preemption, while preempt=full schedules eagerly to minimize
> > latency.
> > 
> > Warn if the user is switching to full preemption with PREEMPT_RCU=n.
> > 
> > Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>
> > Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
> > Cc: Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@...hat.com>
> > Cc: Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@...aro.org>
> > Suggested-by: Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@...nel.org>
> > Link: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/842f589e-5ea3-4c2b-9376-d718c14fabf5@paulmck-laptop/
> > Signed-off-by: Ankur Arora <ankur.a.arora@...cle.com>
> > ---
> >  kernel/sched/core.c | 4 ++++
> >  1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)
> > 
> > diff --git a/kernel/sched/core.c b/kernel/sched/core.c
> > index d7804e29182d..df8e333f2d8b 100644
> > --- a/kernel/sched/core.c
> > +++ b/kernel/sched/core.c
> > @@ -8943,6 +8943,10 @@ static void __sched_dynamic_update(int mode)
> >  		break;
> >  
> >  	case preempt_dynamic_full:
> > +		if (!IS_ENABLED(CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU))
> > +			pr_warn("%s: preempt=full is not recommended with CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU=n",
> > +				PREEMPT_MODE);
> > +
> 
> Yeah, so I don't believe this is a viable strategy.
> 
> Firstly, none of these RCU patches are actually about the whole LAZY
> preempt scheme, they apply equally well (arguably better) to the
> existing PREEMPT_DYNAMIC thing.
> 
> Secondly, esp. with the LAZY thing, you are effectively running FULL at
> all times. It's just that some of the preemptions, typically those of
> the normal scheduling class are somewhat delayed. However RT/DL classes
> are still insta preempt.
> 
> Meaning that if you run anything in the realtime classes you're running
> a fully preemptible kernel. As such, RCU had better be able to deal with
> it.
> 
> So no, I don't believe this is right.

At one point, lazy preemption selected PREEMPT_COUNT (which I am
not seeing in this version, perhaps due to blindness on my part).
Of course, selecting PREEMPT_COUNT would result in !PREEMPT_RCU kernel's
rcu_read_lock() explicitly disabling preemption, thus avoiding preemption
(including lazy preemption) in RCU read-side critical sections.

Ankur, what am I missing here?

							Thanx, Paul