linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v4 2/7] mm: multi-gen LRU: Have secondary MMUs participate in aging

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Message-ID: <CAOUHufb_-w=B+NfHAUAo=O8bDXZBdXeeGRZD6kY=krN07srbGA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2024 10:45:04 -0600
From: Yu Zhao <yuzhao@...gle.com>
To: Oliver Upton <oliver.upton@...ux.dev>
Cc: James Houghton <jthoughton@...gle.com>, Sean Christopherson <seanjc@...gle.com>, 
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@...hat.com>, 
	Albert Ou <aou@...s.berkeley.edu>, Ankit Agrawal <ankita@...dia.com>, 
	Anup Patel <anup@...infault.org>, Atish Patra <atishp@...shpatra.org>, 
	Axel Rasmussen <axelrasmussen@...gle.com>, Bibo Mao <maobibo@...ngson.cn>, 
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>, David Matlack <dmatlack@...gle.com>, 
	David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>, Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@...nel.org>, 
	James Morse <james.morse@....com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>, Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org>, 
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@...erman.id.au>, Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@...il.com>, 
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@...belt.com>, Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@...ive.com>, 
	Raghavendra Rao Ananta <rananta@...gle.com>, Ryan Roberts <ryan.roberts@....com>, 
	Shaoqin Huang <shahuang@...hat.com>, Shuah Khan <shuah@...nel.org>, 
	Suzuki K Poulose <suzuki.poulose@....com>, Tianrui Zhao <zhaotianrui@...ngson.cn>, 
	Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, Zenghui Yu <yuzenghui@...wei.com>, kvm-riscv@...ts.infradead.org, 
	kvm@...r.kernel.org, kvmarm@...ts.linux.dev, 
	linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org, 
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org, 
	linux-mips@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org, 
	linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org, linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org, 
	loongarch@...ts.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 2/7] mm: multi-gen LRU: Have secondary MMUs participate
 in aging

On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 1:03 AM Oliver Upton <oliver.upton@...ux.dev> wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 12:05:48AM -0600, Yu Zhao wrote:

Let me add back what I said earlier:

  I'm not convinced, but it doesn't mean your point of view is
  invalid. If you fully understand the implications of your design
  choice and document them, I will not object.

> > All optimizations in v2 were measured step by step. Even that bitmap,
> > which might be considered overengineered, brought a readily
> > measuarable 4% improvement in memcached throughput on Altra Max
> > swapping to Optane:
>
> That's great, but taking an iterative approach to the problem allows
> the reviewers and maintainers to come to their own conclusions about
> each optimization independently. Squashing all of that together and
> posting the result doesn't allow for this.

That's your methodology, which I respect: as I said I won't stand in your way.

But mine is backed by data, please do respect that as well, by doing
what I asked: document your justifications.

> Even if we were to take the series as-is, the door is wide open to
> subsequent improvements.
>
> > What I don't think is acceptable is simplifying those optimizations
> > out without documenting your justifications (I would even call it a
> > design change, rather than simplification, from v3 to v4).
>
> No, sorry, there's nothing wrong with James' approach here.

Sorry, are you saying "without documenting your justifications" is
nothing wrong? If so, please elaborate.

> The discussion that led to the design of v4 happened on list; you were
> on CC. The general consensus on the KVM side was that the bitmap was
> complicated and lacked independent justification. There was ample
> opportunity to voice your concerns before he spent the time on v4.

Please re-read my previous emails -- I never object to the removal of
the bitmap or James' approach.

And please stop making assumptions -- I did voice my concerns with
James privately.

> You seriously cannot fault a contributor for respinning their work based
> on the provided feedback.

Are you saying I faulted James for taking others' feedback? If so,
where? And I'll make sure I don't give such an impression in the
future.

Also what do you think about the technical flaws and inaccurate
understandings I pointed out? You seem to have a strong opinion on
your iterate approach, but I hope you didn't choose to overlook the
real meat of this discussion.